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#1360031 - 06/02/18 04:57 PM VA-ALERT: URGENT: False arrests of VA CHP holders?
Agent19 Offline
2A 4 All

Registered: 01/12/09
Posts: 3669
Loc: VA
City or County: 22973
06/02/2018
VA-ALERT: URGENT: False arrests of VA CHP holders?


The Virginia State Police are way, way behind on entering CHP holder information into the Virginia Criminal Information Network (VCIN).

What that means is that if you are stopped by law enforcement, who for some reason doesn't trust the validity of your CHP, and the officer queries VCIN, he might be told incorrectly that your permit doesn't exist (if new) or has expired!

Supposedly the VCIN system puts up a message warning officer's that it's data is not to be blindly trusted, but I'm hearing some officers are doing so anyway and there have been arrests. If the VCIN information isn't 100% accurate, why are the State Police even providing it? That's a recipe for disaster.

IF YOU HAVE BEEN **FALSELY** ARRESTED FOR AN INVALID OR EXPIRED CHP, OR KNOW SOMEONE WHO HAS, VCDL NEEDS THE DETAILS!

We need to get to the bottom of this situation. Like I said, publishing incorrect information on VCIN is worse than not publishing any information at all.

Please spread this message on any chat groups where Virginia gun owners are likely to see it.

They can contact me, Philip Van Cleave, at president@vcdl.org or by calling 804-639-0600.


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***************************************************************************
VA-ALERT is a project of the Virginia Citizens Defense League, Inc.
(VCDL). VCDL is an all-volunteer, non-partisan grassroots organization
dedicated to defending the human rights of all Virginians. The Right to
Keep and Bear Arms is a fundamental human right.

VCDL web page: http://www.vcdl.org
_________________________
I’ll gladly take questionable mean tweets, a strong economy, energy independence and a Respected Country, over high inflation, millions of illegals aliens, mask/ vaccine mandates and pedophile in chief.




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#1364022 - 06/13/18 09:22 PM Re: VA-ALERT: URGENT: False arrests of VA CHP holders? [Re: Agent19]
blueZ Offline
Marksman

Registered: 07/18/12
Posts: 208
Loc: Virginia
City or County: Norfolk
Thanks for fighting the good fight. Please keep it up, it means more to us than you know! smile

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#1364366 - 06/14/18 10:31 PM Re: VA-ALERT: URGENT: False arrests of VA CHP holders? [Re: Agent19]
Execprotect Offline
Dialed In

Registered: 06/22/14
Posts: 1834
Loc: Rappahannock County
City or County: Rappahannock County
What kind of jack a.. LEO would arrest someone for that. Everyone I know would take the presented document as proof of their status and try and figure out why it was not showing; not arrest or detain due to a records issue. Let me guess, most of the people were stopped for traffic offenses as well. I bet all of them have clean records.

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#1400944 - 09/18/18 06:30 PM Re: VA-ALERT: URGENT: CHP holders! 9/18/2018 [Re: Agent19]
Agent19 Offline
2A 4 All

Registered: 01/12/09
Posts: 3669
Loc: VA
City or County: 22973
VA ALERT 09/18/2018

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Not yet a Virginia Citizens Defense League member? Join VCDL at: https://vcdl.org/join
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VCDL's calendar: http://www.vcdl.org/meetings
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Abbreviations used in VA-ALERT: http://www.vcdl.org/help/abbr.html
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VA-ALERT archives: http://www.listbox.com/member/archive/727/=now
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THE PROBLEM

I was interviewed a couple of weeks ago about an ongoing issue with the Virginia State Police (VSP) database having CHP holder information that is NOT being updated promptly.

This is a real problem here in Virginia, but is probably worse if you travel out of state and are depending on reciprocity to allow you to carry.

The issue is that the VSP is behind on entering the information on tens of thousands of Virginia CHP holders (upwards of 60,000 at one point). If you recently renewed or are a new CHP holder, the VSP database could show your permit has expired or that you don't have a permit at all, respectively.

If the police officer that stopped you trusts that database more than he trusts the CHP he's actually holding in his hand, you could be falsely arrested and charged with a concealed weapon violation!

If you are out of state, I'd say the odds of being arrested go up considerably!

This problem reared its ugly head during the end of the General Assembly session this year, but it was supposed to be fixed long before now. The fix involved getting the data directly from the Virginia Supreme Court in a format that the VSP could upload directly into their computers.

Currently the information is being retyped into the VSP computers, which slows things down dramatically and increases the odds that the data will have some typographical mistakes in it. For example, if the operator mistypes your name, your information will not show up when the database is searched by name.


WHAT NEEDS TO BE DONE BY VCDL

Effective immediately the VSP needs to stop sharing information on permit holders with law enforcement officers until such time as the information is up-to-date and is correct. (Why disseminate information that cannot be trusted to be accurate?) To attempt to affect this change I will be contacting the VSP and lawmakers.

I will also see if I can get an official document from VSP on VSP letterhead that we can carry instead stating that the CHP database is not up-to-date and the information could be incorrect.

We could also push the Circuit Court Clerks to send a letter with all new and renewed CHPs similar to the letter in the article below. That letter is from the Prince William County Clerk, Jacqueline C. Smith. Kudos for being proactive, Ms. Smith!


WHAT YOU CAN DO TO PROTECT YOURSELF IN THE MEANTIME

While far from perfect, I suggest that you print out the following article DIRECTLY FROM WJLA'S WEBSITE and keep it with you until we can find a better solution.

https://wjla.com/news/local/virginia-backlog-concealed-handgun-permits-database

Here is the article for your convenience:

Virginia has a months-long backlog in its concealed handgun permits database
Victoria Sanchez/ABC7

More than 400,000 Virginians have legal, concealed handgun permits, but for residents with a new or recently renewed permit, the state system that tracks the documents might not have them in it at all.

“I think it’s a huge problem,” said Philip VanCleave, president of the Virginia Citizens Defense League.

VanCleave first heard about the Virginia State Police backlog in January.

“As of earlier this year, there were something like 60,000 permit holders whose information had not been entered in the State Police database,” he said.

Virginia State Police acknowledged the backlog but did not say how many still needed to be entered into the system. The information including the permittee’s name, address, and date of birth need to be added to the Virginia Criminal Information Network (VCIN). In 2017, staff at the Virginia State Police Firearms Transaction Center manually entered 54,584 permits into the system.

“The Department is also in the final stages of going live with a new digital interface system through the Virginia Supreme Court that will allow circuit court clerks to automatically upload permits into VCIN. This will significantly expedite the transition process,” a statement from the Virginia State Police said.

Until the Firearms Transaction Center catches up, at least one county is warning permit holders there could be a problem. The Office of the Clerk of the Circuit Court in Prince William County is mailing out a notice with permits it issued to residents.

“We have been informed that the State Police is 4-6 months behind in updating Concealed Handgun Permits in their systems. This has resulted in situations where the citizen produces an apparently valid permit for law enforcement but when the officer looks up the permit in the State Police system, it shows as expired or non-existent,” the note stated.

The notice also told permittees to tell law enforcement officers to contact the court to confirm the validity of permits if they do not appear in the state system.

“I carry mine right with my license,” Scott Wahl said.

Wahl is with 50 West Armory and first got his concealed handgun permit two decades ago. He was surprised to find out that permit holders like him could potentially be seen as someone illegally carrying a firearm because of the outdated database.

“The last thing you want to do is have a firearm that you’re legally carrying and have it escalate into something it’s not,” he said.

“Boy, that would be devastating to somebody who has a perfect and clean record, who’s done everything they can to stay within the right side of the law only to be caught up because of a mistake on the part of the police. Truly unacceptable,” VanCleave said.

Carrying a concealed handgun without a permit could result in a Class 1 misdemeanor for the first offense. A second violation could be punishable as a Class 6 felony. However for permit holders, Virginia code states, “It shall be an affirmative defense to a violation of clause (i) regarding a handgun, that a person had been issued, at the time of the offense, a valid concealed handgun permit.”

Wahl said permittees should always have the card-like document with them while they are carrying a concealed weapon. Although it’s not required in the state of Virginia, if he is pulled over for a traffic stop, he informs the officer he is carrying a weapon and has a legal permit.

“I would be surprised if you had your permit on you, if [the police] would not look at that as a valid permit,” he said.


-------------------------------------------
***************************************************************************
VA-ALERT is a project of the Virginia Citizens Defense League, Inc.
(VCDL). VCDL is an all-volunteer, non-partisan grassroots organization
dedicated to defending the human rights of all Virginians. The Right to
Keep and Bear Arms is a fundamental human right.

VCDL web page: [http://www.vcdl.org/]
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_________________________
I’ll gladly take questionable mean tweets, a strong economy, energy independence and a Respected Country, over high inflation, millions of illegals aliens, mask/ vaccine mandates and pedophile in chief.




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#1401546 - 09/20/18 01:01 PM Re: VA-ALERT: URGENT: CHP holders! 9/18/2018 [Re: Agent19]
Agent19 Offline
2A 4 All

Registered: 01/12/09
Posts: 3669
Loc: VA
City or County: 22973
VA-Alert 9/20/2018




************************************************************
1. More information on the VSP CHP database
************************************************************

I have received input from several of you on the issue of the Virginia State Police (VSP) being way behind on entering CHP data into their database.


VSP DOES PUT UP A WARNING MESSAGE FOR VIRGINIA LAW ENFORCEMENT

One of our law enforcement officer members told me that the following message appears on the screen when law enforcement IN VIRGINIA requests the status of a CHP holder:

"The absence of a concealed handgun permit entry does not preclude the existence of a valid concealed handgun permit. Please verify concealed handgun permit status with the issuing court."

The officer said he's not sure if that same message comes up for police in other states.

I like that VSP is putting up that message, but it can still be missed by an officer skimming the screen.


AN EXCELLENT OPTION FOR THOSE WITH NON-RESIDENT CHPS

For those of you who have a non-resident CHP from another state, one of our Executive members suggested that you also carry that permit with you. If your Virginia CHP information comes up wrong, you can always present your Utah, Florida, Illinois, Connecticut, DC, or other non-resident permit. It would also protect you if your traveling in a state that honors both Virginia and your non-resdient permit. That's where Utah and Florida permits shine, as they cover most of the same states as your Virginia CHP.

This is just another example of why it is a good idea to have at least one non-resident permit from another state!


THE BACKLOG MOST LIKELY DOES NOT APPLY TO THOSE WITH VIRGINIA NON-RESIDENT CHPS

Since VSP processes all the Virginia non-resident CHPs, there should not be a problem with a backlog or inaccuracies in the data.
_________________________
I’ll gladly take questionable mean tweets, a strong economy, energy independence and a Respected Country, over high inflation, millions of illegals aliens, mask/ vaccine mandates and pedophile in chief.




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