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#1238855 - 08/15/17 06:02 PM
Felons now using CHP's
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s70l3n
belt fed
Registered: 02/04/13
Posts: 202
Loc: Loudoun county virginia
City or County: Sterling
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Just wanted everyone to know... I operate an FFL in NOVA and someone was arrested in my store last week which I found odd seeing as he had a CHP in his name matching his physical address. After the arrest I asked how this was possible and the detective said that it is possible for a felon to get a CHP if some rights were restored, however the right to purchase and possess is still not permissible. As ridiculous as this sounds it actually happened. I dont want to see anyone here get in trouble for falling for this. ALWAYS GET A BILL OF SALE!!!
_________________________
An evil genius I may be, but a genius nonetheless I do not accept Taurus ANYTHING I do not do business with any employee from Blue Ridge Arsenal
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#1238968 - 08/15/17 09:42 PM
Re: Felons now using CHP's
[Re: s70l3n]
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CoastieKid
Marksman
Registered: 03/06/16
Posts: 366
Loc: Staunton
City or County: Augusta
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What the frack? If you're legally barred from owning firearms how can you be issued a CHP? That makes absolutely no sense. Either your rights are restored or they are not. There has to be more to this...just my .2
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#1238970 - 08/15/17 09:56 PM
Re: Felons now using CHP's
[Re: s70l3n]
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num1fordfan
RUGERS and T.B.T.B.E.B
Registered: 09/03/09
Posts: 10130
Loc: prince george , va 23875
City or County: PRINCE GEORGE
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Yea this makes no sense at all
_________________________
IMA TURKEY SHOOTIN FOOL. INTEREST IS UP AND THE STOCK MARKETS DOWN YA GONNA GET MUGGED IF YA GO DOWN TOWN
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#1239179 - 08/16/17 01:00 PM
Re: Felons now using CHP's
[Re: s70l3n]
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s70l3n
belt fed
Registered: 02/04/13
Posts: 202
Loc: Loudoun county virginia
City or County: Sterling
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I dont get it either. The detective that briefly spoke with me wasn't too inviting on explaining the situation further. The only thing that supports his argument is that the perp got arrested for attempting to buy a firearm as a felon despite the fact that his CHP matched his DL and his DL matched his description. Again, something that I dont understand but an even better reason to always get a BOS.
_________________________
An evil genius I may be, but a genius nonetheless I do not accept Taurus ANYTHING I do not do business with any employee from Blue Ridge Arsenal
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#1239345 - 08/16/17 07:22 PM
Re: Felons now using CHP's
[Re: s70l3n]
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nvcdl
Bullseye
Registered: 04/03/13
Posts: 1992
Loc: ORANGE
City or County: Orange
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Might have been convicted after his permit was issued. I suspect most courts don't do any follow up after issuance.
In any event a Bill of Sale offers no protection - if anything just provides additional evidence against you.
If you sell a gun in good faith you have little to fear - if you sell a gun to a prohibited person and they can prove you knew the person was prohibited you will be in trouble.
Edited by nvcdl (08/16/17 07:23 PM)
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#1241475 - 08/22/17 06:06 AM
Re: Felons now using CHP's
[Re: s70l3n]
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haulingman
Addicted
Registered: 04/17/15
Posts: 537
Loc: springfield, va
City or County: Fairfax county
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A bill of sale does absolutely nothing but create voluntary gun registration. Many travel to the capital to protest gun control and advocate for freedom and then preach that we should be doing Bill of Sale on transactions between private citizens. A bill of sale doesn't remove civil liability if you sell to a person banned due to mental illness and that individual harms someone. You can still be sued. The whole idea that if a firearm you sell is used in a crime you are automatically liable is laughable. The idea that you have to have records of a firearm you sold in case of it latter being used in a crime is FALSE. " The police will show up at your door demanding answers" is even more laughable. You can and should close the door and say nothing. We have something called a 5th amendment in this country. Criminal prosecution requires the state to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that you knowingly sold to a prohibited person. I don't think anyone on this site is doing this. I certainly have seen ZERO evidence of it. Everyone I have dealt from here has been wonderful, honest and kind. With respect to the prohibited person getting a permit, that shows the failures of government licencing, permitting and controlling commerce. Most of this is done to tax tax tax and control the people and their property. It has nothing to do with crime control. There are so many illegally owned weapons now its a joke. For the right price criminals can buy class 3 weapons stolen from National Guard Armories. They don't need a gun store or VA gun trader to arm up. The gentleman with the permit probably made a honest mistake. If he was really attempting to commit a crime he wouldn't be walking into a pawn shop and filling out paper work. If on a jury I would find him not guilty.
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#1248510 - 09/06/17 02:51 PM
Re: Felons now using CHP's
[Re: s70l3n]
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Tyronyglock40man
NO TIME FOR “WOKE” JOKE UNICORN FOLK
Registered: 01/20/11
Posts: 6074
Loc: Virginia
City or County: Capital of the Confederacy Richmond-Williamsburg area
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Good ol mccauliffe and his bass ackwards democratic logic
_________________________
Burning of the Reichstag : February 27th 1933 Storming of the US Capital : January 6th 2020 Covidhoax : All a media crap show
RIP LAKEN RILEY
FJB
It will always be Forts Lee AP Hill Bragg Pickett Benning Gordon and Hood
DEO VINDICE !!!!!!!!!!
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#1248930 - 09/07/17 01:22 PM
Re: Felons now using CHP's
[Re: s70l3n]
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Enbloc
1 Yard Distance Target Shooting Champion
Registered: 03/01/15
Posts: 489
Loc: Virginia
City or County: Fredericksburg
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CHP is not exclusively for guns. It also allows you to legally conceal other "weapons" like certain knives among other things. So that's why a felon might want one even if they can't legally own a gun. They can still own a knife/handheld weapon. I'm cool with it, and it shows they are responsible enough to seek a legal way to conceal a knife or other tool.. If they intended to do harm, they would conceal anyway. http://www.vsp.state.va.us/Firearms_ResidentConcealed.shtmEdit: Also +1 to haulingman's comment
Edited by Enbloc (09/07/17 01:25 PM)
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#1249926 - 09/09/17 03:05 PM
Re: Felons now using CHP's
[Re: s70l3n]
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the cwa
MODERATLY MONITORING MODERATOR
Registered: 02/27/10
Posts: 5663
Loc: Virginia
City or County: Prince George,23842
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From the link above:
"Persons Not Qualified to Obtain a Permit – Section 18.2-308.09
1.An individual who is ineligible to possess a firearm pursuant to Section 18.2-308.1:1, 18.2-308.1:2 or Section 18.2-308.1:3 or the substantially similar law of any other state or of the United States."
So per the VSP site, a person not legally able to possess a firearm cannot be issued a Concealed Handgun Permit.
As was mentioned earlier, I would think it possible that a person could be convicted after having been issued a permit, which could explain this situation.
_________________________
VAGUNTRADER SECRET SERVICE(shhhhhh, don't tell anybody, i'm undercover)
If you were a hotdog, and you were starving, would you eat yourself?
HEY, we all know that the moon is not made of green cheese. but what if it was made of barbecue spare ribs, would you eat it then?
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#1250843 - 09/11/17 04:23 PM
Re: Felons now using CHP's
[Re: s70l3n]
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Travis#
Hillbilly with a gun
Registered: 01/05/13
Posts: 172
Loc: Hanover
City or County: Hanover
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Either way he shouldn't have had the permit I think. If he had held a CHP before conviction, you would think he would have had to relinquish it before he left the courthouse after conviction.
_________________________
S&W revolvers and Marlin lever actions.
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#1251732 - 09/13/17 04:04 PM
Re: Felons now using CHP's
[Re: Enbloc]
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Va Hunter
Gun fool
Registered: 12/11/08
Posts: 829
Loc: Drakes Branch
City or County: Charlotte
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CHP is not exclusively for guns. It also allows you to legally conceal other "weapons" like certain knives among other things. So that's why a felon might want one even if they can't legally own a gun. They can still own a knife/handheld weapon. I'm cool with it, and it shows they are responsible enough to seek a legal way to conceal a knife or other tool.. If they intended to do harm, they would conceal anyway. http://www.vsp.state.va.us/Firearms_ResidentConcealed.shtmEdit: Also +1 to haulingman's comment I believe you are wrong. A CHP is for a handgun only, concealed handgun permit not a CWP which Virginia does not issue is a concealed weapon permit.
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#1290659 - 12/10/17 09:42 PM
Re: Felons now using CHP's
[Re: s70l3n]
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J_D_M
Single barrel
Registered: 03/22/13
Posts: 27
Loc: Stafford
City or County: Stafford
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Actually, it can happen. In Virginia a felon can have their civil rights restored as well as their right to possess a firearm. It does not allow them to buy a firearm, but it restores the right to possess one. And it is only in Virginia that they can possess the firearm. Not other states. Therefore, the Conceal Permit is issued because they have a court order allowing them to possess the firearm in Virginia. I worked at a law firm and they did these cases. Most of them were older people with old convictions that were not violent offenses. The conviction must be more than 10 years old. It's not easy to get, but it can happen. And the majority were trying to get the right restored simply to be able to hunt with a firearm other than bow or blackpowder. http://www.vsp.state.va.us/Firearms_Restoration.shtm"If you have been granted restoration of your political rights from the Governor of Virginia, you may petition circuit court of the county or city in which you reside or of the county or city in which you were convicted, for a hearing to request restoration of your firearm rights. See Section 18.2-308.2 of the Code of Virginia." Read paragraph C. in this code section. https://law.lis.virginia.gov/vacode/title18.2/chapter7/section18.2-308.2/
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#1290738 - 12/11/17 07:49 AM
Re: Felons now using CHP's
[Re: s70l3n]
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Bighorn
Marksman
Registered: 04/10/16
Posts: 227
Loc: Chesapeake
City or County: Chesapeake
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If a person that was convicted of a felony has had their civil rights restored and had their firearms rights restored by their local court, (in the State of conviction), they would not be prohibited by Federal or State law.
Edited by Bighorn (12/11/17 07:51 AM)
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#1290956 - 12/11/17 05:57 PM
Re: Felons now using CHP's
[Re: s70l3n]
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MP3Mogul
VAGT Staff
Registered: 01/14/09
Posts: 6266
Loc: Salem, Virginia
City or County: Salem
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Their firearm rights are restored in "Virginia" only. Virginia does not have the power to restore a felon's rights in any other state.
_________________________
USMC Retired Semper-Fi
"We're surrounded. That simplifies the problem." Chesty Puller
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#1291421 - 12/12/17 06:09 PM
Re: Felons now using CHP's
[Re: s70l3n]
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Bighorn
Marksman
Registered: 04/10/16
Posts: 227
Loc: Chesapeake
City or County: Chesapeake
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#1291526 - 12/12/17 09:23 PM
Re: Felons now using CHP's
[Re: Bighorn]
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ktyhawk
General Nuisance
Registered: 11/20/08
Posts: 3688
Loc: New Kent
City or County: New Kent County
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I have some personal knowledge of some of the felons getting their rights back. Some crappy people will be able to own guns again.
_________________________
FJB & C0.
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#1291563 - 12/12/17 11:07 PM
Re: Felons now using CHP's
[Re: s70l3n]
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Bighorn
Marksman
Registered: 04/10/16
Posts: 227
Loc: Chesapeake
City or County: Chesapeake
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#1318332 - 02/13/18 03:22 PM
Re: Felons now using CHP's
[Re: s70l3n]
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The Corps
SLAP!!!
Registered: 10/07/11
Posts: 1460
Loc: NoVA
City or County: Ffx County unfortunately
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I'm still confused by this. So are felons legally able to purchase/own/possess firearms now or no?
_________________________
"A nation of sheep breeds a government of wolves."
Why are you always smiling?" "Because it's all so **I'M AN IDIOT** hysterical."
Chitty chitty bang bang
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#1320951 - 02/19/18 08:21 PM
Re: Felons now using CHP's
[Re: The Corps]
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Bugzy
OTTO FOOL 1%er
Registered: 04/28/10
Posts: 1214
Loc: VA.
City or County: Peninsula area
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I'm still confused by this. So are felons legally able to purchase/own/possess firearms now or no? NO!!!
_________________________
Reluctance to Redundancy is Perplexing in a Perpetual World.
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#1320952 - 02/19/18 08:22 PM
Re: Felons now using CHP's
[Re: Nathan Hale]
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Bugzy
OTTO FOOL 1%er
Registered: 04/28/10
Posts: 1214
Loc: VA.
City or County: Peninsula area
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People who heed those advising them not to get a BOS should remember that it is not their door the ATF will be knocking upon. I speak from personal experience on this.
VS Gun Trader recommends getting a bill of sale when you sell a gun and I strongly agree. Expand upon that...if you will please sir.
_________________________
Reluctance to Redundancy is Perplexing in a Perpetual World.
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#1321216 - 02/20/18 01:17 PM
Re: Felons now using CHP's
[Re: Bugzy]
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USG
Marksman
Registered: 12/28/15
Posts: 320
Loc: Virginia
City or County: Manassas
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People who heed those advising them not to get a BOS should remember that it is not their door the ATF will be knocking upon. I speak from personal experience on this.
VS Gun Trader recommends getting a bill of sale when you sell a gun and I strongly agree. Expand upon that...if you will please sir. The ATF will come to your door or call you (that's how they reached me) if they have a question about a firearm that they can track to you. They'll use your words against the individual in court and need evidence (BOS) from you to strengthen their case. BOS is great because it's an excellent proof that they bought the gun. You're not doing anything illegal by not getting a BOS, but it's easier for you if you do and there's some questions in the future about it.
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#1325494 - 03/02/18 12:03 AM
Re: Felons now using CHP's
[Re: s70l3n]
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haulingman
Addicted
Registered: 04/17/15
Posts: 537
Loc: springfield, va
City or County: Fairfax county
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You can also say, I exert my fifth amendment RIGHT under the Constitution and refuse to have any discussion with law enforcement.
I find it horrific that those advocating for bill of sale on all transactions are using the same “ logical “ arguments that anti-2nd amendment people use to demand full registration of all firearms. A famous historical figure used the same argument:
“ This year will go down in history. For the first time, a cilvilized nation has full gun registration. Our streets will be safer, our police more efficient, and the world will follow our lead into the future ! “ Adolf Hitler -1935
The dumbing down of history in our schools, the training to worship law enforcement that has occurred in TV sitcoms and movies ( and some churches sadly) has created this concept that “ good people “ trust government, especially police. Well time for a history lesson: democide killed 260 million people in the 20th century.
In my early 20s I had several cops as roommates. During discussions I often heard, “ well I don’t agree with it BUT it’s the law and I have to enforce it. That mentality has been carefully trained into people by government run schools. How many of you learned about democide in world history that attended the public schools ? Question, who exactly do you think will be tracking down and seizing firearms when that day comes ( and it will ) ? The local law enforcement and ATF. They will be using purchase records from gun shops and bill of sales naively drafted with good intentions. Who do you think will be the first citizens to turn over their private sales records when the government mandates it by law?
Hint: they are voluntarily waiving their right and insist on depriving you of your right to privacy in a transaction now , when it’s NOT Required by law. Folks a bill of sale in a private transaction is just another form of gun registration.
Fine and good to parade around on lobby day defending your RIGHTS,but that accomplishes little if we then turn around and advocate that people waive them. I have a hard time believing that a guy so intimidated by the prospect of the police or ATF contacting them, that they waive their RIGHTS now will stand with us in a real fight for our freedoms when that day comes. Cowardliness may be comfortable but it's the enemy of freedom.
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#1325498 - 03/02/18 02:57 AM
Re: Felons now using CHP's
[Re: haulingman]
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Newgunguy
Marksman
Registered: 06/06/17
Posts: 237
Loc: Virginia
City or County: Goochland
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If I could thumbs up your comment I would do it every day for over a year, you hit the nail right on the head with that comment!
Charles.
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#1327236 - 03/06/18 02:31 PM
Re: Felons now using CHP's
[Re: Bugzy]
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lizjimbo
Marksman
Registered: 05/28/12
Posts: 230
Loc: VA
City or County: FREDERICKSBURG
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I'm still confused by this. So are felons legally able to purchase/own/possess firearms now or no? NO!!! Yes a convicted felon can purchase and possess a firearm in Virginia. Just simply read the 4473 or the sp65 before you make declarations that are wrong. Or simply read the code of Virginia...all of the firearms codes!!! If a convicted felon cannot be trusted with a firearm why in the name of God is he out of prison where he can have access to firearms by illegal means.
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#1327352 - 03/06/18 07:43 PM
Re: Felons now using CHP's
[Re: s70l3n]
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MP3Mogul
VAGT Staff
Registered: 01/14/09
Posts: 6266
Loc: Salem, Virginia
City or County: Salem
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No a felon cannot purchase and possess a firearm "UNLESS" his firearm rights have been restored by the circuit court in the county in which he resides. They can be restored, but any felon cannot just purchase a firearm.
_________________________
USMC Retired Semper-Fi
"We're surrounded. That simplifies the problem." Chesty Puller
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#1327688 - 03/07/18 06:16 PM
Re: Felons now using CHP's
[Re: MP3Mogul]
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lizjimbo
Marksman
Registered: 05/28/12
Posts: 230
Loc: VA
City or County: FREDERICKSBURG
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No a felon cannot purchase and possess a firearm "UNLESS" his firearm rights have been restored by the circuit court in the county in which he resides. They can be restored, but any felon cannot just purchase a firearm. I do believe that is exactly what the 4473 says...number 11. That was my point...some on here are making declaratory and emphatic statements that a felon cannot purchase a firearm...That is not an accurate statement.
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#1347733 - 04/30/18 01:30 AM
Re: Felons now using CHP's
[Re: s70l3n]
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Cpayne41880
Pea shooter
Registered: 04/29/18
Posts: 6
Loc: Wakefield virginia
City or County: Sussex
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Im new here, what is chp?
Edited by Cpayne41880 (04/30/18 01:31 AM)
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#1347862 - 04/30/18 11:45 AM
Re: Felons now using CHP's
[Re: Cpayne41880]
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Agent19
2A 4 All
Registered: 01/12/09
Posts: 3679
Loc: VA
City or County: 22973
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Im new here, what is chp? Concealed Handgun Permit
_________________________
I’ll gladly take questionable mean tweets, a strong economy, energy independence and a Respected Country, over high inflation, millions of illegals aliens, mask/ vaccine mandates and pedophile in chief.
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#1348735 - 05/03/18 01:25 AM
Re: Felons now using CHP's
[Re: haulingman]
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2Aallday
Bolt action
Registered: 01/30/17
Posts: 142
Loc: Va, USA
City or County: Newport News
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The only reason I am for bill of sale, at least for me... what if I sold the gun to someone and it's used in a crime? When you PURCHASE a gun from a dealer, the serial number linked with your info gets sent in for a background check..l whether you agree with it or not, right or wrong, how is that NOT a defacto registration? Therefor, if the gun you purchased with your info attached to it is sold to someone else WITHOUT PROOF and used in a crime, you'd be up you know what's creek because you don't agree with a (certainly unconstitutional, but in reality) law. No thanks.
Edited by 2Aallday (05/03/18 01:28 AM)
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#1349005 - 05/03/18 06:36 PM
Re: Felons now using CHP's
[Re: s70l3n]
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rromeo
Bullseye
Registered: 07/06/10
Posts: 1665
Loc: VA
City or County: Pulaski
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Not exactly. The VSP will know you bought a rifle, shotgun, pistol, or other. The serial number goes on the 4473 form, which stays in the FFL's records.
_________________________
Never initiate force against another. But should someone do violence to you, retaliate without hesitation, without reservation, without quarter, until you are sure that he will never wish to harm - or never be capable of harming - you or yours again.
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#1349068 - 05/03/18 10:24 PM
Re: Felons now using CHP's
[Re: rromeo]
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2Aallday
Bolt action
Registered: 01/30/17
Posts: 142
Loc: Va, USA
City or County: Newport News
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Okay, but if it ever came down to a confiscation, number one, they KNOW you have a weapon and number two, if they wanted more info on said weapon, if at this point it's an all out confiscation, it wouldn't be too far of a stretch of the imagination to think they'd be willing to extra judiciously seize the FFLs records. Either way, as I said, it's a de facto registration... with or without the FFLs records.
Edited by 2Aallday (05/03/18 10:28 PM)
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#1349172 - 05/04/18 10:22 AM
Re: Felons now using CHP's
[Re: ktyhawk]
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lizjimbo
Marksman
Registered: 05/28/12
Posts: 230
Loc: VA
City or County: FREDERICKSBURG
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I have some personal knowledge of some of the felons getting their rights back. Some crappy people will be able to own guns again. And some crappy people have guns and no convictions. Not sure what your point is. I know someone that was a career Army officer. Buried in Arlington National Cemetery. He never should have been allowed anywhere near a gun...so crappy people come in all sorts of colors!
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#1359829 - 06/02/18 05:53 AM
Re: Felons now using CHP's
[Re: haulingman]
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OttoSkorzeny
Bolt action
Registered: 12/15/15
Posts: 147
Loc: NOVA
City or County: Fairfax
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You can also say, I exert my fifth amendment RIGHT under the Constitution and refuse to have any discussion with law enforcement.
I find it horrific that those advocating for bill of sale on all transactions are using the same “ logical “ arguments that anti-2nd amendment people use to demand full registration of all firearms. A famous historical figure used the same argument:
“ This year will go down in history. For the first time, a cilvilized nation has full gun registration. Our streets will be safer, our police more efficient, and the world will follow our lead into the future ! “ Adolf Hitler -1935
The dumbing down of history in our schools, the training to worship law enforcement that has occurred in TV sitcoms and movies ( and some churches sadly) has created this concept that “ good people “ trust government, especially police. Well time for a history lesson: democide killed 260 million people in the 20th century.
In my early 20s I had several cops as roommates. During discussions I often heard, “ well I don’t agree with it BUT it’s the law and I have to enforce it. That mentality has been carefully trained into people by government run schools. How many of you learned about democide in world history that attended the public schools ? Question, who exactly do you think will be tracking down and seizing firearms when that day comes ( and it will ) ? The local law enforcement and ATF. They will be using purchase records from gun shops and bill of sales naively drafted with good intentions. Who do you think will be the first citizens to turn over their private sales records when the government mandates it by law?
Hint: they are voluntarily waiving their right and insist on depriving you of your right to privacy in a transaction now , when it’s NOT Required by law. Folks a bill of sale in a private transaction is just another form of gun registration.
Fine and good to parade around on lobby day defending your RIGHTS,but that accomplishes little if we then turn around and advocate that people waive them. I have a hard time believing that a guy so intimidated by the prospect of the police or ATF contacting them, that they waive their RIGHTS now will stand with us in a real fight for our freedoms when that day comes. Cowardliness may be comfortable but it's the enemy of freedom.
I 100% agree with you sir. I signed one bill of sale years ago and swore it was my last. I still get faces of shock when I refuse to sign from a would have been seller. I would also like to point out that this law that emerged about Felons not owning firearms is crap.. some of the founding fathers were felons. What happemed to " Shall not be infringed",,thereby ALL and ANY firearms laws would be,,UNCONSTITUTIONAL. The anti-gun judges will determine that the 2nd amdmnt is able to be manipulated. Stalin had his judges too.
Edited by OttoSkorzeny (06/02/18 05:54 AM)
_________________________
Proud member of the Sons of the American Revolution Repeal the 1968 Gun Control Act Repeal the 1934 Firearms Act
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#1364492 - 06/15/18 10:33 AM
Re: Felons now using CHP's
[Re: OttoSkorzeny]
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user
Constitutionalist
Registered: 01/14/09
Posts: 841
Loc: Broad Run, VA.
City or County: Fauquier
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I do use a bill of sale form for all transactions; I only use the one I drafted myself, and haven't seen any others that provide the protection that I think is essential for all parties.
The fact is, you have no "right of privacy" as to any purchase and sale transaction involving another person, and particularly one whom you do not know personally. However, the use of a bill of sale form is completely unrelated to any governmental interest and there is no requirement that you supply it other than in response to a valid subpoena or search warrant. It does not constitute any kind of "registration" and is known only to the buyer and the seller.
There are legal risks involved in buying and selling firearms, and my form is designed to protect both parties against those risks when used according to the instructions provided. Suppose you buy a gun from what appears to be a "good guy" with proper documentation, and it turns out to have been used in a murder. How will you prove that you did not have the gun in your possession on the date the murder occurred? Bill of sale form (with the correct date on it, of course). Suppose on the other hand, the seller turns around and reports the gun as stolen to "the authorities"? Bill of sale form. Or you, as the seller, happen to sell a gun to a guy who appears to be a "good guy" with all the proper documentation, and it turns out he's a convicted felon or has been adjudicated insane? My bill of sale form covers that. What if you want to sell a gun other than in a face-to-face transaction (e.g., by shipping via UPS) within the same state? Perfectly legal, but only by following the correct procedure (covered by my form).
People who tell you not to use a bill of sale form (or a defective form such as the Texas model that was floated around here for years) either want you to engage in a transaction in which they know they're doing something illegal (and don't care if you go to jail), or just don't understand their own legal system. It's just plain stupid to take unnecessary risks; you could end up spending twenty years in prison because of a stupid mistake.
This is not legal advice, but I do feel, after thirty years of litigation practice primarily devoted to firearms and personal defense, qualified to state these opinions.
Anyone who wants a copy of my form in pdf format can send me an email - vgt@defenserights.org
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#1368770 - 06/28/18 04:02 AM
Re: Felons now using CHP's
[Re: s70l3n]
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haulingman
Addicted
Registered: 04/17/15
Posts: 537
Loc: springfield, va
City or County: Fairfax county
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How will you prove that you did not have the gun in your possession on the date the murder occurred? (quoted from above)
I have a hard time believing that a member of the bar thinks a person has to prove they sold the weapon, or their innocence in any way within the United States. I find it equelly hilarious that you think a " bill of sale" proves it was in fact sold. That is not how we investigate crimes and adjudicate guilt in this country.
Forgive me, but that shows a total lack of understanding of basic American Jurisprudence. I personally don't think you are qualified to represent anyone in a criminal trial based on that comment alone. Good thing you are unemployed according to your profile.
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#1481092 - 04/12/19 08:18 AM
Re: Felons now using CHP's
[Re: s70l3n]
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user
Constitutionalist
Registered: 01/14/09
Posts: 841
Loc: Broad Run, VA.
City or County: Fauquier
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Once a felon, always a felon, unless pardoned by the Governor (for Virginia state court convictions) or the Office of the President (for federal court convictions). Rights can be restored without a pardon, but there are two levels of restoration: the Governor's office through the Secretary of the Commonwealth can restore political rights (voting and such) but has the authority to say that firearms rights restoration is prohibited for that applicant, and a circuit court can enter an order of restoration of the right to bear arms. The latter requires filing a civil case in the form of a petition, and while one has the right to do that himself, my suggestion is, find a competent attorney.
Unless one's political rights have been restored first without a prohibition regarding firearms, a circuit court cannot authorize restoration of firearms rights. And felons are not allowed to have a CHP, because § 18.2-308.09 (6) excludes them from eligibility. I suspect that certain law enforcement agencies are clearing convicted felons on the background check precisely to be able to "get" them when they go to buy a handgun thinking that the CHP makes them eligible. It's a trick to generate easy convictions (which is important at budget time).
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#1493964 - 05/19/19 11:02 AM
Re: Felons now using CHP's
[Re: ktyhawk]
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lizjimbo
Marksman
Registered: 05/28/12
Posts: 230
Loc: VA
City or County: FREDERICKSBURG
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I have some personal knowledge of some of the felons getting their rights back. Some crappy people will be able to own guns again. And what makes you a crappy miscreant?
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#1498356 - 06/01/19 02:49 AM
Re: Felons now using CHP's
[Re: lizjimbo]
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Bighorn
Marksman
Registered: 04/10/16
Posts: 227
Loc: Chesapeake
City or County: Chesapeake
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Congratulations on getting your rights back, lizjimbo
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#1498472 - 06/01/19 10:25 AM
Re: Felons now using CHP's
[Re: s70l3n]
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Verylargeboots
Professional FUDD Hater
Registered: 10/10/16
Posts: 728
Loc: VA
City or County: Lynchburg
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No kidding. That's awesome that you got your rights restored man!
_________________________
Much like anonymous sex, internet based gun transactions are mildly risky, but almost always worth it.
I'm not a surgeon, why? What's a little sepsis between friends?
Everyone takes a beating sometimes
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#1499946 - 06/05/19 01:58 PM
Re: Felons now using CHP's
[Re: lizjimbo]
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Agent19
2A 4 All
Registered: 01/12/09
Posts: 3679
Loc: VA
City or County: 22973
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The best you can do is judge someones character not the paper work. 1+
_________________________
I’ll gladly take questionable mean tweets, a strong economy, energy independence and a Respected Country, over high inflation, millions of illegals aliens, mask/ vaccine mandates and pedophile in chief.
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#1499958 - 06/05/19 02:54 PM
Re: Felons now using CHP's
[Re: Agent19]
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g-shooter
Great at putting the worm on the hook!!
Registered: 09/19/11
Posts: 654
Loc: NoVa
City or County: Alexandria
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If I don’t know you, we’re gonna meet at my FFL
_________________________
Guns please!
If you are a Leader without followers you aren't leading...you are taking a walk.
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#1500033 - 06/05/19 05:04 PM
Re: Felons now using CHP's
[Re: s70l3n]
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Agent19
2A 4 All
Registered: 01/12/09
Posts: 3679
Loc: VA
City or County: 22973
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If I need to use an FFL/show a CHP/dance the jig etc...to purchase a firearm via private sale why do I need you? I'll just buy from FFL and you can keep your used items. Guns owners in a semi free state imposing CA style gun control purchase rules, without being forced to by the Gov't.
_________________________
I’ll gladly take questionable mean tweets, a strong economy, energy independence and a Respected Country, over high inflation, millions of illegals aliens, mask/ vaccine mandates and pedophile in chief.
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#1500119 - 06/05/19 08:27 PM
Re: Felons now using CHP's
[Re: Agent19]
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Puddle Jumper
Addicted
Registered: 06/04/11
Posts: 516
Loc: Shenandoah Valley, Virginia
City or County: Shenandoah Valley
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+1, I agree with A-19
_________________________
Really, it is nothing personal, I just dont do the shipping thing......FTF is how I roll.
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#1500158 - 06/05/19 09:59 PM
Re: Felons now using CHP's
[Re: s70l3n]
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The Truth
The iguana is on the rock
Registered: 08/06/14
Posts: 283
Loc: Henrico
City or County: Henrico
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Agent19, spot on as usual.
_________________________
WANTS:
S&W Model 1076 TEU- prefix FBI issue
CZ Model 457 Varmint 22WMR Ruger Hawkeye Compact 308
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#1520571 - 07/31/19 02:23 PM
Re: Felons now using CHP's
[Re: s70l3n]
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Ar_allstar
Gun fool
Registered: 04/13/12
Posts: 1077
Loc: virginia
City or County: Spotsylvania
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the left wants this... they want more gun violence as well as felons voting ...
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#1633290 - 05/07/20 08:41 PM
Re: Felons now using CHP's
[Re: s70l3n]
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werstenz
Double barrel
Registered: 05/23/14
Posts: 94
Loc: VA
City or County: Stafford
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I bought a pistol here and glad the seller gave me a BOS. It turned out stolen in 1987 (Not by the member I bought it from) but when the State Police knocked on my door it quickly resolved the situation when I produced my BOS. I then called the member I got the pistol from and he had his BOS ready for them when they arrived. BOS is a good protection.
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#1633387 - 05/08/20 05:25 AM
Re: Felons now using CHP's
[Re: werstenz]
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Verylargeboots
Professional FUDD Hater
Registered: 10/10/16
Posts: 728
Loc: VA
City or County: Lynchburg
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I bought a pistol here and glad the seller gave me a BOS. It turned out stolen in 1987 (Not by the member I bought it from) but when the State Police knocked on my door it quickly resolved the situation when I produced my BOS. I then called the member I got the pistol from and he had his BOS ready for them when they arrived. BOS is a good protection. In other words.... "Quickly resolved the situation when I showed the government my papers"
Attachments
_________________________
Much like anonymous sex, internet based gun transactions are mildly risky, but almost always worth it.
I'm not a surgeon, why? What's a little sepsis between friends?
Everyone takes a beating sometimes
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#1633543 - 05/08/20 10:46 AM
Re: Felons now using CHP's
[Re: s70l3n]
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spooklaw
Double barrel
Registered: 06/24/10
Posts: 62
Loc: Appomattox,VA
City or County: Appomattox
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Don't worry guys, your Governor has taken care of this little BOS problem for you.
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#1633605 - 05/08/20 12:02 PM
Re: Felons now using CHP's
[Re: spooklaw]
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Verylargeboots
Professional FUDD Hater
Registered: 10/10/16
Posts: 728
Loc: VA
City or County: Lynchburg
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Don't worry guys, your Governor has taken care of this little BOS problem for you. Exactly.
_________________________
Much like anonymous sex, internet based gun transactions are mildly risky, but almost always worth it.
I'm not a surgeon, why? What's a little sepsis between friends?
Everyone takes a beating sometimes
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#1633797 - 05/08/20 07:04 PM
Re: Felons now using CHP's
[Re: werstenz]
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rromeo
Bullseye
Registered: 07/06/10
Posts: 1665
Loc: VA
City or County: Pulaski
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I bought a pistol here and glad the seller gave me a BOS. It turned out stolen in 1987 (Not by the member I bought it from) but when the State Police knocked on my door it quickly resolved the situation when I produced my BOS. I then called the member I got the pistol from and he had his BOS ready for them when they arrived. BOS is a good protection. How did the VSP get to you?
_________________________
Never initiate force against another. But should someone do violence to you, retaliate without hesitation, without reservation, without quarter, until you are sure that he will never wish to harm - or never be capable of harming - you or yours again.
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#1648711 - 06/14/20 09:36 AM
Re: Felons now using CHP's
[Re: s70l3n]
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Richards
Richardb
Registered: 01/04/14
Posts: 375
Loc: Richmond
City or County: Powhatan
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Everyone who talks about requiring a bill of sale CHP picture of ID etc. is voting, yelling , wanting and speaking up for universal background checks. Well congratulations that is what you will get come July 1st. So don't start complaining first of the month when we all are required to do the background check. That is what you all want per your BOS . You act like with no BOS you will go to prison. You will not. And this stupidity that a bill of sale is needed will be put to rest. Next question. When you go to the ffl and the background check is done are all you BOS people going to ask for a copy or are you still going to do a BOS? LOL
Edited by Richards (06/14/20 09:37 AM)
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#1648767 - 06/14/20 11:21 AM
Re: Felons now using CHP's
[Re: Richards]
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JG
Tactical Tommy Commando
Registered: 03/30/09
Posts: 2727
Loc: Tidewater/HamptonRoads area
City or County: Tidewater/HamptonRoads area
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Everyone who talks about requiring a bill of sale CHP picture of ID etc. is voting, yelling , wanting and speaking up for universal background checks. Well congratulations that is what you will get come July 1st. So don't start complaining first of the month when we all are required to do the background check. That is what you all want per your BOS . You act like with no BOS you will go to prison. You will not. And this stupidity that a bill of sale is needed will be put to rest. Next question. When you go to the ffl and the background check is done are all you BOS people going to ask for a copy or are you still going to do a BOS? LOL Exactly.
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#1658446 - 07/11/20 11:51 PM
Re: Felons now using CHP's
[Re: Travis#]
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lizjimbo
Marksman
Registered: 05/28/12
Posts: 230
Loc: VA
City or County: FREDERICKSBURG
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Either way he shouldn't have had the permit I think. If he had held a CHP before conviction, you would think he would have had to relinquish it before he left the courthouse after conviction. A CHP is only a piece of paper. Sorry judge my dog ate my homework and my CHP. Problem solved.
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#1658519 - 07/12/20 11:18 AM
Re: Felons now using CHP's
[Re: s70l3n]
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nvcdl
Bullseye
Registered: 04/03/13
Posts: 1992
Loc: ORANGE
City or County: Orange
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Yup - the "I need a BOS a CHP and 3 ID" crowd should be happy with the UBC.
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#1673474 - 09/11/20 09:05 PM
Re: Felons now using CHP's
[Re: s70l3n]
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Richards
Richardb
Registered: 01/04/14
Posts: 375
Loc: Richmond
City or County: Powhatan
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Well, seen gun for sale post today saying bill of sale required. Curious why. To protect the seller so they won't go to jail? I hope no one buys from these people. It's like a city slicker moving to the country and complaining about the birds making too much noise.
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#1673519 - 09/12/20 01:54 AM
Re: Felons now using CHP's
[Re: Richards]
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Verylargeboots
Professional FUDD Hater
Registered: 10/10/16
Posts: 728
Loc: VA
City or County: Lynchburg
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Well, seen gun for sale post today saying bill of sale required. Curious why. To protect the seller so they won't go to jail? I hope no one buys from these people. It's like a city slicker moving to the country and complaining about the birds making too much noise. Doesn't matter now with UBC anyway. Which is garbage but still
Edited by Verylargeboots (09/12/20 01:55 AM)
_________________________
Much like anonymous sex, internet based gun transactions are mildly risky, but almost always worth it.
I'm not a surgeon, why? What's a little sepsis between friends?
Everyone takes a beating sometimes
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#1674219 - 09/14/20 01:40 PM
Re: Felons now using CHP's
[Re: s70l3n]
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Richards
Richardb
Registered: 01/04/14
Posts: 375
Loc: Richmond
City or County: Powhatan
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That's my point someone actually thinks a BOS is needed after a FFL transfer
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#1674262 - 09/14/20 04:40 PM
Re: Felons now using CHP's
[Re: s70l3n]
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JBaccheus
Double barrel
Registered: 09/01/19
Posts: 73
Loc: VA
City or County: Fairfax
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Bill of Sale is good practice.
Say unscrupulous Seller A sells a handgun to Schmuck B, without telling said Schmuck that Seller reported the Handgun as stolen to the police last week...
What it does is give hard copy documentation of your story, the only case in which it is a negative is when you are in the wrong.
Now I am not saying that you need to prove your innocence, and just like LIZJIMBO said "A CHP is only a piece of paper." The BOS is just a piece of paper, if you don't want it, throw it away or burn it.
I cannot think of a single legitimate reason to oppose a request for a BOS except as a principle.
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#1674469 - 09/15/20 11:24 AM
Re: Felons now using CHP's
[Re: JBaccheus]
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Richards
Richardb
Registered: 01/04/14
Posts: 375
Loc: Richmond
City or County: Powhatan
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Bill of Sale is good practice.
Say unscrupulous Seller A sells a handgun to Schmuck B, without telling said Schmuck that Seller reported the Handgun as stolen to the police last week...
What it does is give hard copy documentation of your story, the only case in which it is a negative is when you are in the wrong.
Now I am not saying that you need to prove your innocence, and just like LIZJIMBO said "A CHP is only a piece of paper." The BOS is just a piece of paper, if you don't want it, throw it away or burn it.
I cannot think of a single legitimate reason to oppose a request for a BOS except as a principle. UMM do you know that a UBC thru a dealer is law in Virginia? And that the sellers name is put into the transfer book at the FFL along with the buyers. So if a gun is found to be reported stolen then the guy who bought the gun says, Hey I bought this gun from soandso and we did the transfer at green tops. They then go to green tops and get the information. Therefore no need for a BOS. So laughable.
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#1674499 - 09/15/20 01:52 PM
Re: Felons now using CHP's
[Re: s70l3n]
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LmgM
Single barrel
Registered: 10/01/17
Posts: 27
Loc: Alexandria
City or County: NOVA
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I agree 100%. Bill of sale is redundant and unnecessary in these new times of mandatory dealer transfers, so I would not go thru with the deal as a buyer simply as a matter of principle.
And I also agree 100% that it’s laughable. In fact, when I see these types of sale posts, I really do chuckle a little bit and then scroll on by.
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#1677622 - 09/26/20 07:29 AM
Re: Felons now using CHP's
[Re: s70l3n]
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28gauge
Small gauge man!
Registered: 11/26/08
Posts: 1488
Loc: Richmond and I get around ! VA...
City or County: Richmond City
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You meet at FFL. You hand the FFL the gun. He logs it in. It’s the FFL’s gun - no longer yours. Case in point. I carried a 1911 fo FFL and the potential buyer was declined. FFL was delighted - he wanted the guy. Legally he owned it at that point. He paid cash and I went to the bank.
_________________________
Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear to be bright until you hear them speak.
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#1678478 - 09/28/20 04:51 PM
Re: Felons now using CHP's
[Re: s70l3n]
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rromeo
Bullseye
Registered: 07/06/10
Posts: 1665
Loc: VA
City or County: Pulaski
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That is incorrect. The FFL is not supposed to log the gun until the background check has been completed. If the buyer is denied or delayed, he seller has the option to take the gun back and walk right out the door. Some may have been doing it the way you described, and I understand why, but what I said is according to the recent ATF guidance on performing background checks for private sales.
Edited by rromeo (09/28/20 04:53 PM)
_________________________
Never initiate force against another. But should someone do violence to you, retaliate without hesitation, without reservation, without quarter, until you are sure that he will never wish to harm - or never be capable of harming - you or yours again.
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#1679150 - 10/01/20 05:55 AM
Re: Felons now using CHP's
[Re: s70l3n]
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Verylargeboots
Professional FUDD Hater
Registered: 10/10/16
Posts: 728
Loc: VA
City or County: Lynchburg
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Where do y'all keep your BOS if you do that kind of thing? A folder in a safe or some other "secure" location? So criminals come in your home to jack your stuff, kill you and your family because you didn't have time to put on a Hawaiian shirt, cargo shorts, flip flops and NODs. Or maybe they just busted in the house while you were gone, whatever. They jack the gun safe or rip it open, and go through the house stealing stuff. Unless you put the BOS you've accumulated in the walls or floor, those are probably gone and now criminals have information on who else owns guns. Or imagine you are the one that got your stuff stolen because someone had BOS with your info. Just one of many of my random tinfoil hat thoughts
_________________________
Much like anonymous sex, internet based gun transactions are mildly risky, but almost always worth it.
I'm not a surgeon, why? What's a little sepsis between friends?
Everyone takes a beating sometimes
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#1692319 - 11/12/20 03:03 PM
Re: Felons now using CHP's
[Re: rromeo]
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Jimmm
Ford#1
Registered: 04/29/20
Posts: 835
Loc: Fredericksburg
City or County: Fredericksburg
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I bought a pistol here and glad the seller gave me a BOS. It turned out stolen in 1987 (Not by the member I bought it from) but when the State Police knocked on my door it quickly resolved the situation when I produced my BOS. I then called the member I got the pistol from and he had his BOS ready for them when they arrived. BOS is a good protection. How did the VSP get to you? They overheard some wild south china sea story at a fudd bar and decide to take action. Due to the toilet paper shortage earlier this year, I resorted to using bos to wipe my **VOTE IN NOVEMBER** with them. Plenty of freedom ink available as proof.
Edited by Jimmm (11/12/20 03:03 PM)
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#1692899 - 11/14/20 02:56 PM
Re: Felons now using CHP's
[Re: s70l3n]
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rromeo
Bullseye
Registered: 07/06/10
Posts: 1665
Loc: VA
City or County: Pulaski
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I mean, if you had to call the seller to warn him, then it makes no sense how anybody knew you had it.
_________________________
Never initiate force against another. But should someone do violence to you, retaliate without hesitation, without reservation, without quarter, until you are sure that he will never wish to harm - or never be capable of harming - you or yours again.
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#1692918 - 11/14/20 03:59 PM
Re: Felons now using CHP's
[Re: s70l3n]
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Agent19
2A 4 All
Registered: 01/12/09
Posts: 3679
Loc: VA
City or County: 22973
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Fairy tale......
_________________________
I’ll gladly take questionable mean tweets, a strong economy, energy independence and a Respected Country, over high inflation, millions of illegals aliens, mask/ vaccine mandates and pedophile in chief.
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#1692920 - 11/14/20 04:02 PM
Re: Felons now using CHP's
[Re: Agent19]
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Jimmm
Ford#1
Registered: 04/29/20
Posts: 835
Loc: Fredericksburg
City or County: Fredericksburg
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#1709327 - 12/30/20 09:02 PM
Re: Felons now using CHP's
[Re: Richards]
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halfcock
Thanks for the memories
Registered: 01/01/20
Posts: 153
Loc: Hampton Roads
City or County: Virginia Beach
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Background check is for the person that covers your **I VOTED FOR BIDEN** so that you are not selling to a felon bill of sale covers your **I VOTED FOR BIDEN** to prove you did not steal the firearm
_________________________
Thanks for the memories
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#1710070 - 01/02/21 03:18 AM
Re: Felons now using CHP's
[Re: halfcock]
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Bighorn
Marksman
Registered: 04/10/16
Posts: 227
Loc: Chesapeake
City or County: Chesapeake
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Background check is for the person that covers your **I VOTED FOR BIDEN** so that you are not selling to a felon bill of sale covers your **I VOTED FOR BIDEN** to prove you did not steal the firearm Requiring a background check is pseudo registration and having a bill of sale doesn’t prove anything. I can write up a bill of sale stating I paid $1 for the Biltmore Estate - doesn’t mean it’s mine.
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#1730460 - 02/18/21 10:19 AM
Re: Felons now using CHP's
[Re: Scolex]
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Jimmm
Ford#1
Registered: 04/29/20
Posts: 835
Loc: Fredericksburg
City or County: Fredericksburg
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You can always scan it to a google drive... Put em in a folder in your documents box that says "tax expenditures".
But after July's law changes, I don't do a BOS any more, that's why I'm paying the FFL. Yeah...tell google more.
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