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#1484522 - 04/21/19 07:57 PM HD Shotgun 'reloads' - for the wife
Mark S Offline
General Nuisance

Registered: 04/29/10
Posts: 3595
Loc: Fairfax county
City or County: Fairfax
My wife hates 'going to the range' but is proficient with her P22. Proficient enough to put 10 rounds in a paper dessert plate in about 3 seconds

My wife enjoys skeet/trap shooting with me. We both use the older standard frame receiver Remington 1100 in 20ga. Obviously, the recoil is light and she likes shooting at moving targets (stationary she finds boring).

I have a 22" slug barrel that I swapped onto her 1100 and let her try slugs and buckshot. That did not go well. She did not like the sizeable increase in recoil, even with the .5 ounce slugs (219gr @ 1800fps, 1575lbs).

I know NOTHING about reloading.

I'd like to develop an HD round for her with the help of you shotgun and reloading experts and enthusiasts. I'm just spitballing the math here, but I figure .5ounce slug traveling around 1400 fps would still ~950 ft-lbs of energy at the muzzle and given we're talking inside the house distances I'd say we'd still be about 150% of a .357, give or take. BUT...I'd also have to produce enough energy to cycle the gas semiauto.

Better yet, 11 of the #4 buck or 10 of the #3 buck pellets would be ~.53 ounces @ 1400 fps would be over 950 ft-lbs and deliver quite a punch with a little room for error and maybe not overpenetration.

Either round would still need to cycle the semi which does just fine on a 7/8 ounce #9 loads at 1200 fps. So, I'm thinking the 1/2ounce at 1400 fps (or maybe a little more weight or velocity) could still work. Yes, I know F=M*A regardless of shot size, it's the weight that matters, but felt-recoil of #9s was still lighter than the slug.

I was thinking about getting a 12ga pump and using the Aguila minishells, but they do have some loading issues which seems to be particular to the individual shotgun.

Any thoughts?


Edited by Mark S (04/21/19 07:58 PM)

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#1484567 - 04/21/19 10:56 PM Re: HD Shotgun 'reloads' - for the wife [Re: Mark S]
Cash is King Offline
Nice guy... NO MORE

Registered: 09/15/11
Posts: 5596
Loc: Woodbridge/Stafford/Gloucester...
City or County: Prince William, Stafford & Gloucester monthly.
My HD load (inside the house) is #2 or #4 shot... Think BIG OUCH HOLE (12" pattern) at 20-25 feet.

Grab a box of rabbit (or old lead duck) shells and see how she likes that recoil.

----------------------

Plan B is to try a recoil management shotgun like a Browning Maxus (she is welcome to try mine). These new age recoil management guns REALLY REALLY tame recoil. Like unbelievably mild (my wife and young son went from shooting a 20 gauge to the 12 gauge Maxus and both agree the Maxus kicks less).

----------------------

Plan C... I am sure a load can be developed that will cycle the gun and your wife can handle, but there will be trial and error to GUARANTEE function (not a small safety risk IMHO)... that is why I make it Plan C.
_________________________
Be verdant... NOT petulant... in all things.

I-95 "Fast Lanes" solved NOTHING!!!


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#1484589 - 04/22/19 12:27 AM Re: HD Shotgun 'reloads' - for the wife [Re: Mark S]
num1fordfan Offline
RUGERS and T.B.T.B.E.B

Registered: 09/03/09
Posts: 9314
Loc: prince george , va 23875
City or County: PRINCE GEORGE
Since it is a cyl bore brl try some "cut shells" #8 bird shot cut shell about 90%-95% just below the shot cup
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FORDS , RUGERS , TALL BLUE EYED WOMEN , WHITE TAIL DEER , HANK WILLIAMS JR , POOL TABLES , JACK DANIELS , WILD TURKEY AND JIM BEAM ... IF HEAVEN AINT ALOT LIKE THAT I DONT WANNA GO ...

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#1484599 - 04/22/19 05:47 AM Re: HD Shotgun 'reloads' - for the wife [Re: Mark S]
Execprotect Offline
Dialed In

Registered: 06/22/14
Posts: 1651
Loc: Fauquier-Catlett
City or County: Fauquier
The Federal tactical reduced recoil buckshot and slugs feel like you are shooting #6 game loads. Out of a semi they are even softer.

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#1484694 - 04/22/19 10:51 AM Re: HD Shotgun 'reloads' - for the wife [Re: Mark S]
Mark S Offline
General Nuisance

Registered: 04/29/10
Posts: 3595
Loc: Fairfax county
City or County: Fairfax
Looks like I'm about to get in the reloading game...

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000KOVWE4/ref=ask_ql_qh_dp_hza

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#1485822 - 04/25/19 12:49 PM Re: HD Shotgun 'reloads' - for the wife [Re: Mark S]
Jpfreek19 Offline
Pea shooter

Registered: 12/11/17
Posts: 17
Loc: Virginia
City or County: St stephens church
Take in consideration legal issues that could arise using reloads for self defense.

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#1485837 - 04/25/19 02:01 PM Re: HD Shotgun 'reloads' - for the wife [Re: Mark S]
Mark S Offline
General Nuisance

Registered: 04/29/10
Posts: 3595
Loc: Fairfax county
City or County: Fairfax
So...

I bought a 20ga 'Turkish pump clone' on GB and all in cost is about $119. (I watched some videos and it seems like a relatively reliable and inexpensive test platform)

...guess I gotta by the reloading press now.

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#1485878 - 04/25/19 04:27 PM Re: HD Shotgun 'reloads' - for the wife [Re: Mark S]
mequirky Offline
Conversion Madness

Registered: 03/28/11
Posts: 1149
Loc: Dale City Va.
City or County: Dale City
Mark, your welcome to come over and "create" some 20ga light shells, I have everything but large shot.
_________________________
If the problem can be solved why worry? If the problem cannot be solved worrying will do you no good.
Shantideva

What me worry?
A.E. Newman



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#1486225 - 04/26/19 05:29 PM Re: HD Shotgun 'reloads' - for the wife [Re: Mark S]
bustedknee Offline
Curmudgeon

Registered: 02/17/10
Posts: 1517
Loc: Southwest Va
City or County: Wythe
_________________________
"I am old, sick, and tired of living. If you feel the need to mess with me, go right ahead."
My Uncle, with his hand on his pistol (in his pocket), talking to a troublemaker.

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#1486239 - 04/26/19 06:05 PM Re: HD Shotgun 'reloads' - for the wife [Re: Jpfreek19]
Execprotect Offline
Dialed In

Registered: 06/22/14
Posts: 1651
Loc: Fauquier-Catlett
City or County: Fauquier
Originally Posted By: Jpfreek19
Take in consideration legal issues that could arise using reloads for self defense.

The notion reloads would play a part in a trial was once a consideration but is extremely far fetched and was once spouted by some of the older gun writers. If that becomes a point of contention in a trial you've done 100 other things incorrectly. A good shoot is a good shoot.

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#1486376 - 04/27/19 07:34 AM Re: HD Shotgun 'reloads' - for the wife [Re: mequirky]
Mark S Offline
General Nuisance

Registered: 04/29/10
Posts: 3595
Loc: Fairfax county
City or County: Fairfax
Thanks Chad. Wife starts traveling again the week after next, I'll PM you.

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#1486378 - 04/27/19 07:35 AM Re: HD Shotgun 'reloads' - for the wife [Re: bustedknee]
Mark S Offline
General Nuisance

Registered: 04/29/10
Posts: 3595
Loc: Fairfax county
City or County: Fairfax
Originally Posted By: bustedknee


I actually thought about switching to 12ga because there are so many more options, but I've got a lot of 20ga and am trying to keep it to one gauge.

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#1486442 - 04/27/19 09:50 AM Re: HD Shotgun 'reloads' - for the wife [Re: Mark S]
mequirky Offline
Conversion Madness

Registered: 03/28/11
Posts: 1149
Loc: Dale City Va.
City or County: Dale City
NP Mark, lots of options when loading 20ga from scratch.
_________________________
If the problem can be solved why worry? If the problem cannot be solved worrying will do you no good.
Shantideva

What me worry?
A.E. Newman



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#1489438 - 05/06/19 09:56 AM Re: HD Shotgun 'reloads' - for the wife [Re: Mark S]
Ali Offline
Gun fool

Registered: 01/08/12
Posts: 830
Loc: VA, USA
City or County: Fairfax
Hey Mark, I'm late to the party with the response but I've been in the 12 and 20 gauge world for a few years now doing too many hours of research on different loads, patterns etc looking for low recoil loads for my sis as well as a couple lady friends.

Between 12 and 20 .... I did back to back testing with #3 buckshot 20 pellet out of my wooden Rem 870 vs royal rio low recoil 9 pellet 00 buckshot out of my wooden Rem 870.

The 20 gauge was about 1 lb lighter. I shot one round each back to back. The 20 gauge was just a "hair" less recoil.

If you want a low recoil 20 gauge round without having to reload the lowest I found was:

Wad Wizard 20 gauge #4 buckshot 18 pellet @ 1200 fps.

I've also tried Wolf Hill 20 gauge 00 buckshot 10 pellet at 1250 fps.

Royal Rio has a 9 pellet #1 buckshot that I thought wasn't bad either.

Wad Wizard was the lowest kicking commercial 20 gauge defensive load I found.

I still have my targets from 7 yard shooting too if you wanted to compare. Remember NRA doesn't allow buckshot patterning.

If you want to meet up at NRA sometime I can scrounge up.

I also have a couple of the 6 pellet 00 buck mini shells. Def low recoil. Cycled well out of my Win Speed Pump. I put those in the chamber for some noobs.
_________________________
"Universal truth is not measured in mass appeal." -- Immortal Technique

"To conquer a nation you must first disarms the citizens" --Adolf Hitler 1933

"Write it down and remember that we never gave in." - Immortal Technique

"Fight fire with water." Me

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#1490200 - 05/08/19 12:51 PM Re: HD Shotgun 'reloads' - for the wife [Re: Mark S]
Mark S Offline
General Nuisance

Registered: 04/29/10
Posts: 3595
Loc: Fairfax county
City or County: Fairfax
Thanks Ali. I've found a few different choices but part of aking my own is out of boredom and for fun.

I read up on the Wad Wizard #4 @ 1200 and they cycled the Rem 1100.

I've found a couple of places that carry a 2.5" 20ga that I thought I might try to reload. Or, even take them down to 2.25" and get an extra round in the tube.

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#1490304 - 05/08/19 07:33 PM Re: HD Shotgun 'reloads' - for the wife [Re: Mark S]
Agent19 Offline
2A 4 All

Registered: 01/12/09
Posts: 3043
Loc: Greene
City or County: Stanardsville
Have you consider installing a Knoxx recoil reducing stock.


Also, you could use mini shells, which greatly reduces felt recoil.
There’s an adapter that works for mossberg 500, not sure about other shotguns.

Depending on your living situation have you considered an AR,AK, 30carbine or pistol caliber carbine for her HD needs?


My wife/kids hate the shotgun, so they uses a pistol caliber carbine.
_________________________
A "CHP" slip should be thought of as an embarrassment, an infringement to a free person."
~ Alan Korwin

If you have extra legal requirements I'll pass, buying or selling.

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#1491841 - 05/13/19 09:11 AM Re: HD Shotgun 'reloads' - for the wife [Re: Mark S]
Ali Offline
Gun fool

Registered: 01/08/12
Posts: 830
Loc: VA, USA
City or County: Fairfax
Mark, on the other end of the spectrum...I was also looking at .410

Not a TON out there in terms of defensive ammo however I did find

a 9 pellet #4 buckshot load

Most of the stuff is larger 000 buck like a 3 pellet or 5 pellet

I liked the idea of the 12 gauge running 9 pellet 00
20 gauge running 9 pellet #1
410 running 9 pellet #4
_________________________
"Universal truth is not measured in mass appeal." -- Immortal Technique

"To conquer a nation you must first disarms the citizens" --Adolf Hitler 1933

"Write it down and remember that we never gave in." - Immortal Technique

"Fight fire with water." Me

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#1491870 - 05/13/19 10:15 AM Re: HD Shotgun 'reloads' - for the wife [Re: Ali]
Cash is King Offline
Nice guy... NO MORE

Registered: 09/15/11
Posts: 5596
Loc: Woodbridge/Stafford/Gloucester...
City or County: Prince William, Stafford & Gloucester monthly.
Originally Posted By: Ali
Mark, on the other end of the spectrum...I was also looking at .410

Not a TON out there in terms of defensive ammo however I did find

a 9 pellet #4 buckshot load

Most of the stuff is larger 000 buck like a 3 pellet or 5 pellet

I liked the idea of the 12 gauge running 9 pellet 00
20 gauge running 9 pellet #1
410 running 9 pellet #4


A Remington 1100 in .410 with the OOO buckshot loads would be formidable weapon. Basic math is 4 to 6 9mm sized bullets hitting at the same speed... at the same time... nothing to sneeze at.

Personally, I still recommend a recoil reducing gun in 12 gauge that will have the same recoil as the .410 (3") or 20 gauge... BUT leave a far better bootprint on the target.


Edited by Cash is King (05/13/19 10:17 AM)
Edit Reason: Typos... as always
_________________________
Be verdant... NOT petulant... in all things.

I-95 "Fast Lanes" solved NOTHING!!!


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#1492643 - 05/15/19 01:09 PM Re: HD Shotgun 'reloads' - for the wife [Re: Mark S]
Mark S Offline
General Nuisance

Registered: 04/29/10
Posts: 3595
Loc: Fairfax county
City or County: Fairfax
Put together some loads yesterday with 'mequirky' for testing next week. Will report back.

Loads are all 3/4oz at
1150 fps
1175 fps
1200 fps

Test guns will be
18.5" pump
20" gas semi
24" Rem 1100

Trying to see how 'low we can go' and still get the semis to operate.

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