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#1238855 - 08/15/17 06:02 PM Felons now using CHP's
s70l3n Offline
belt fed

Registered: 02/04/13
Posts: 194
Loc: Loudoun county virginia
City or County: Sterling
Just wanted everyone to know...
I operate an FFL in NOVA and someone was arrested in my store last week which I found odd seeing as he had a CHP in his name matching his physical address. After the arrest I asked how this was possible and the detective said that it is possible for a felon to get a CHP if some rights were restored, however the right to purchase and possess is still not permissible. As ridiculous as this sounds it actually happened.
I dont want to see anyone here get in trouble for falling for this.
ALWAYS GET A BILL OF SALE!!!
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#1238968 - 08/15/17 09:42 PM Re: Felons now using CHP's [Re: s70l3n]
CoastieKid Offline
Marksman

Registered: 03/06/16
Posts: 344
Loc: Staunton
City or County: Augusta
What the frack? If you're legally barred from owning firearms how can you be issued a CHP? That makes absolutely no sense. Either your rights are restored or they are not. There has to be more to this...just my .2

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#1238970 - 08/15/17 09:56 PM Re: Felons now using CHP's [Re: s70l3n]
num1fordfan Offline
RUGERS and T.B.T.B.E.B

Registered: 09/03/09
Posts: 9415
Loc: prince george , va 23875
City or County: PRINCE GEORGE
Yea this makes no sense at all
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#1239179 - 08/16/17 01:00 PM Re: Felons now using CHP's [Re: s70l3n]
s70l3n Offline
belt fed

Registered: 02/04/13
Posts: 194
Loc: Loudoun county virginia
City or County: Sterling
I dont get it either. The detective that briefly spoke with me wasn't too inviting on explaining the situation further. The only thing that supports his argument is that the perp got arrested for attempting to buy a firearm as a felon despite the fact that his CHP matched his DL and his DL matched his description. Again, something that I dont understand but an even better reason to always get a BOS.
_________________________
An evil genius I may be, but a genius nonetheless
I do not accept Taurus ANYTHING
I do not do business with any employee from Blue Ridge Arsenal

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#1239345 - 08/16/17 07:22 PM Re: Felons now using CHP's [Re: s70l3n]
nvcdl Offline
Full Auto

Registered: 04/03/13
Posts: 1576
Loc: ORANGE
City or County: Orange
Might have been convicted after his permit was issued. I suspect most courts don't do any follow up after issuance.

In any event a Bill of Sale offers no protection - if anything just provides additional evidence against you.

If you sell a gun in good faith you have little to fear - if you sell a gun to a prohibited person and they can prove you knew the person was prohibited you will be in trouble.


Edited by nvcdl (08/16/17 07:23 PM)

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#1239423 - 08/16/17 10:59 PM Re: Felons now using CHP's [Re: s70l3n]
golfdog Offline
Gun fool

Registered: 07/08/09
Posts: 784
Loc: virginia , norfolk
City or County: norfolk
State restoration of all civil rights does not remove the disabilities imposed as a result of a federal conviction. The Supreme Court has held that persons convicted of federal felonies remain subject to the federal firearms disability until their rights are restored through a federal, not state, procedure. For more information concerning this process please contact the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives. from ATF webpage

FYI

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#1241475 - 08/22/17 06:06 AM Re: Felons now using CHP's [Re: s70l3n]
haulingman Offline
Addicted

Registered: 04/17/15
Posts: 419
Loc: springfield, va
City or County: Fairfax county
A bill of sale does absolutely nothing but create voluntary gun registration. Many travel to the capital to protest gun control and advocate for freedom and then preach that we should be doing Bill of Sale on transactions between private citizens. confused

A bill of sale doesn't remove civil liability if you sell to a person banned due to mental illness and that individual harms someone. You can still be sued. The whole idea that if a firearm you sell is used in a crime you are automatically liable is laughable. The idea that you have to have records of a firearm you sold in case of it latter being used in a crime is FALSE. " The police will show up at your door demanding answers" is even more laughable. You can and should close the door and say nothing. We have something called a 5th amendment in this country. Criminal prosecution requires the state to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that you knowingly sold to a prohibited person. I don't think anyone on this site is doing this. I certainly have seen ZERO evidence of it. Everyone I have dealt from here has been wonderful, honest and kind.

With respect to the prohibited person getting a permit, that shows the failures of government licencing, permitting and controlling commerce. Most of this is done to tax tax tax and control the people and their property. It has nothing to do with crime control. There are so many illegally owned weapons now its a joke. For the right price criminals can buy class 3 weapons stolen from National Guard Armories. They don't need a gun store or VA gun trader to arm up. The gentleman with the permit probably made a honest mistake. If he was really attempting to commit a crime he wouldn't be walking into a pawn shop and filling out paper work. If on a jury I would find him not guilty.

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#1248510 - 09/06/17 02:51 PM Re: Felons now using CHP's [Re: s70l3n]
Tonyglock40man Offline
Non comformist patriot

Registered: 01/20/11
Posts: 2851
Loc: Behind enemy lines in central ...
City or County: Central Communist Va
Good ol mccauliffe and his bass ackwards democratic logic
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#1248930 - 09/07/17 01:22 PM Re: Felons now using CHP's [Re: s70l3n]
Enbloc Offline
1 Yard Distance Target Shooting Champion

Registered: 03/01/15
Posts: 330
Loc: Virginia
City or County: Fredericksburg
CHP is not exclusively for guns. It also allows you to legally conceal other "weapons" like certain knives among other things. So that's why a felon might want one even if they can't legally own a gun. They can still own a knife/handheld weapon. I'm cool with it, and it shows they are responsible enough to seek a legal way to conceal a knife or other tool.. If they intended to do harm, they would conceal anyway.

http://www.vsp.state.va.us/Firearms_ResidentConcealed.shtm

Edit: Also +1 to haulingman's comment


Edited by Enbloc (09/07/17 01:25 PM)

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#1249926 - 09/09/17 03:05 PM Re: Felons now using CHP's [Re: s70l3n]
the cwa Offline
MODERATLY MONITORING MODERATOR

Registered: 02/27/10
Posts: 4565
Loc: Virginia
City or County: Prince George,23842
From the link above:

"Persons Not Qualified to Obtain a Permit Ė Section 18.2-308.09

1.An individual who is ineligible to possess a firearm pursuant to Section 18.2-308.1:1, 18.2-308.1:2 or Section 18.2-308.1:3 or the substantially similar law of any other state or of the United States."

So per the VSP site, a person not legally able to possess a firearm cannot be issued a Concealed Handgun Permit.

As was mentioned earlier, I would think it possible that a person could be convicted after having been issued a permit, which could explain this situation.
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#1250843 - 09/11/17 04:23 PM Re: Felons now using CHP's [Re: s70l3n]
Travis# Offline
Hillbilly with a gun

Registered: 01/05/13
Posts: 136
Loc: Hanover
City or County: Hanover
Either way he shouldn't have had the permit I think. If he had held a CHP before conviction, you would think he would have had to relinquish it before he left the courthouse after conviction.
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#1251732 - 09/13/17 04:04 PM Re: Felons now using CHP's [Re: Enbloc]
Va Hunter Offline
Addicted

Registered: 12/11/08
Posts: 616
Loc: Drakes Branch
City or County: Charlotte
Originally Posted By: Enbloc
CHP is not exclusively for guns. It also allows you to legally conceal other "weapons" like certain knives among other things. So that's why a felon might want one even if they can't legally own a gun. They can still own a knife/handheld weapon. I'm cool with it, and it shows they are responsible enough to seek a legal way to conceal a knife or other tool.. If they intended to do harm, they would conceal anyway.

http://www.vsp.state.va.us/Firearms_ResidentConcealed.shtm

Edit: Also +1 to haulingman's comment


I believe you are wrong. A CHP is for a handgun only, concealed handgun permit not a CWP which Virginia does not issue is a concealed weapon permit.

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#1290659 - 12/10/17 09:42 PM Re: Felons now using CHP's [Re: s70l3n]
J_D_M Offline
Single barrel

Registered: 03/22/13
Posts: 27
Loc: Stafford
City or County: Stafford
Actually, it can happen. In Virginia a felon can have their civil rights restored as well as their right to possess a firearm. It does not allow them to buy a firearm, but it restores the right to possess one. And it is only in Virginia that they can possess the firearm. Not other states. Therefore, the Conceal Permit is issued because they have a court order allowing them to possess the firearm in Virginia.
I worked at a law firm and they did these cases. Most of them were older people with old convictions that were not violent offenses. The conviction must be more than 10 years old.
It's not easy to get, but it can happen. And the majority were trying to get the right restored simply to be able to hunt with a firearm other than bow or blackpowder.

http://www.vsp.state.va.us/Firearms_Restoration.shtm

"If you have been granted restoration of your political rights from the Governor of Virginia, you may petition circuit court of the county or city in which you reside or of the county or city in which you were convicted, for a hearing to request restoration of your firearm rights. See Section 18.2-308.2 of the Code of Virginia."
Read paragraph C. in this code section.
https://law.lis.virginia.gov/vacode/title18.2/chapter7/section18.2-308.2/

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#1290738 - 12/11/17 07:49 AM Re: Felons now using CHP's [Re: s70l3n]
Bighorn Offline
Bolt action

Registered: 04/10/16
Posts: 114
Loc: Tidewater
City or County: Chesapeake
If a person that was convicted of a felony has had their civil rights restored and had their firearms rights restored by their local court, (in the State of conviction), they would not be prohibited by Federal or State law.


Edited by Bighorn (12/11/17 07:51 AM)

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#1290956 - 12/11/17 05:57 PM Re: Felons now using CHP's [Re: s70l3n]
MP3Mogul Offline
VAGT Staff

Registered: 01/14/09
Posts: 6101
Loc: Salem, Virginia
City or County: Salem
Their firearm rights are restored in "Virginia" only. Virginia does not have the power to restore a felon's rights in any other state.
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#1291421 - 12/12/17 06:09 PM Re: Felons now using CHP's [Re: s70l3n]
Bighorn Offline
Bolt action

Registered: 04/10/16
Posts: 114
Loc: Tidewater
City or County: Chesapeake
Good point. ^

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#1291526 - 12/12/17 09:23 PM Re: Felons now using CHP's [Re: Bighorn]
ktyhawk Offline
General Nuisance

Registered: 11/20/08
Posts: 3151
Loc: New Kent
City or County: New Kent County
I have some personal knowledge of some of the felons getting their rights back. Some crappy people will be able to own guns again.

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#1291563 - 12/12/17 11:07 PM Re: Felons now using CHP's [Re: s70l3n]
Bighorn Offline
Bolt action

Registered: 04/10/16
Posts: 114
Loc: Tidewater
City or County: Chesapeake
No Bueno

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#1318332 - 02/13/18 03:22 PM Re: Felons now using CHP's [Re: s70l3n]
The Corps Offline
SLAP!!!

Registered: 10/07/11
Posts: 1297
Loc: NoVA
City or County: Fairfax County
I'm still confused by this. So are felons legally able to purchase/own/possess firearms now or no?
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#1320888 - 02/19/18 06:24 PM Re: Felons now using CHP's [Re: s70l3n]
Nathan Hale Offline
Gun fool

Registered: 12/21/11
Posts: 716
Loc: Richmond
City or County: Midlothian
People who heed those advising them not to get a BOS should remember that it is not their door the ATF will be knocking upon. I speak from personal experience on this.

VS Gun Trader recommends getting a bill of sale when you sell a gun and I strongly agree.

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#1320951 - 02/19/18 08:21 PM Re: Felons now using CHP's [Re: The Corps]
Bugzy Offline
OTTO FOOL 1%er

Registered: 04/28/10
Posts: 1214
Loc: VA.
City or County: Peninsula area
Originally Posted By: The Corps
I'm still confused by this. So are felons legally able to purchase/own/possess firearms now or no?
NO!!!
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#1320952 - 02/19/18 08:22 PM Re: Felons now using CHP's [Re: Nathan Hale]
Bugzy Offline
OTTO FOOL 1%er

Registered: 04/28/10
Posts: 1214
Loc: VA.
City or County: Peninsula area
Originally Posted By: Nathan Hale
People who heed those advising them not to get a BOS should remember that it is not their door the ATF will be knocking upon. I speak from personal experience on this.

VS Gun Trader recommends getting a bill of sale when you sell a gun and I strongly agree.


Expand upon that...if you will please sir.
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#1321216 - 02/20/18 01:17 PM Re: Felons now using CHP's [Re: Bugzy]
USG Offline
Marksman

Registered: 12/28/15
Posts: 211
Loc: Virginia
City or County: Fairfax
Originally Posted By: Bugzy
Originally Posted By: Nathan Hale
People who heed those advising them not to get a BOS should remember that it is not their door the ATF will be knocking upon. I speak from personal experience on this.

VS Gun Trader recommends getting a bill of sale when you sell a gun and I strongly agree.


Expand upon that...if you will please sir.


The ATF will come to your door or call you (that's how they reached me) if they have a question about a firearm that they can track to you. They'll use your words against the individual in court and need evidence (BOS) from you to strengthen their case. BOS is great because it's an excellent proof that they bought the gun.

You're not doing anything illegal by not getting a BOS, but it's easier for you if you do and there's some questions in the future about it.

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#1321504 - 02/20/18 10:31 PM Re: Felons now using CHP's [Re: s70l3n]
shootergdv Offline
Marksman

Registered: 07/08/10
Posts: 211
Loc: VA
City or County: Rustburg
Odd thing in VA - you can have your rights restored after being a felon - but no mechanism now in place to expunge a 20 year old misdemeanor if it was labeled "domestic violence". So the ex slapped a charge on you and you paid a $50 fine several decades back, no other court history, but you're toast as far as firearms rights. Only a FELONY should lose you a right, but that slime Laughtenberg stuck it to us many years ago.

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#1321767 - 02/21/18 06:08 PM Re: Felons now using CHP's [Re: USG]
Nathan Hale Offline
Gun fool

Registered: 12/21/11
Posts: 716
Loc: Richmond
City or County: Midlothian
Very elegantly said, USG. Thank you.

My experience is just as you described. ATF knocked on my door and I was able to provide a bill of sale for them. Partially, as a result, they caught the individual who committed a crime using my former gun.

I consider it to be an obligation not only to follow our nation's laws but to help LEO's, if I can, to apprehend those who break them.



Edited by Nathan Hale (02/21/18 06:22 PM)

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