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#1629899 - 04/30/20 02:57 PM Re: ********NEW LAWS******* [Re: Pintonious_Maximus]
Hansohn Brothers Offline
NFA Dealer

Registered: 12/15/08
Posts: 1047
Loc: Culpeper
City or County: Culpeper
Originally Posted By: Pintonious_Maximus
Come 2021 we can still fix it. If When the Democrats and Northam pull this kind of crap again next year the state will most certainly swing back to where we can get better gun laws, IMO.
FIFY. Unfortunately we will suffer until 2024 looking at the election cycle.
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#1629902 - 04/30/20 03:08 PM Re: ********NEW LAWS******* [Re: VaGunTrader]
ScarletWahoo Offline
Pea shooter

Registered: 09/08/19
Posts: 3
Loc: VA
City or County: Charlottesville
Quote:
A. No person shall sell a firearm for money, goods, services or anything else of value unless he has obtained verification from a licensed dealer in firearms that information on the prospective purchaser has been submitted for a criminal history record information check as set out in § 18.2-308.2:2 and that a determination has been received from the Department of State Police that the prospective purchaser is not prohibited under state or federal law from possessing a firearm or such sale is specifically exempted by state or federal law. The Department of State Police shall provide a means by which sellers may obtain from designated licensed dealers the approval or denial of firearm transfer requests, based on criminal history record information checks.


Can this be read that an individual pays to receive a background check from a licensed dealer in firearms, and then use this document, obtained from a licensed dealer, to show to sellers? It's there a time limitation for how long the background check is valid?

Does this not apply to curios or relics? 18.2-308.2:2 reference above states:

Quote:
I. The provisions of this section shall not apply to (i) transactions between persons who are licensed as firearms importers or collectors, manufacturers or dealers pursuant to 18 U.S.C. § 921 et seq.; (ii) purchases by or sales to any law-enforcement officer or agent of the United States, the Commonwealth or any local government, or any campus police officer appointed under Article 3 (§ 23.1-809 et seq.) of Chapter 8 of Title 23.1; or (iii) antique firearms, curios or relics.


I moved to VA from up north to get away from this kind of tyranny, hopefully we can do something to reverse the damage in the coming years.

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#1629908 - 04/30/20 03:28 PM Re: ********NEW LAWS******* [Re: ScarletWahoo]
Hansohn Brothers Offline
NFA Dealer

Registered: 12/15/08
Posts: 1047
Loc: Culpeper
City or County: Culpeper
Originally Posted By: ScarletWahoo
Can this be read that an individual pays to receive a background check from a licensed dealer in firearms, and then use this document, obtained from a licensed dealer, to show to sellers? It's there a time limitation for how long the background check is valid?

No, the background check must be done at the time of transfer for specific firearm(s).

Originally Posted By: ScarletWahoo
Does this not apply to curios or relics?

Only if the seller and buyer have an FFL.
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Virginia's Largest Silencer Dealer
540-748-8155
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#1629991 - 04/30/20 06:13 PM Re: ********NEW LAWS******* [Re: Hansohn Brothers]
Pintonious_Maximus Offline
Pea shooter

Registered: 04/30/20
Posts: 2
Loc: VB
City or County: VB
Originally Posted By: Hansohn Brothers
Originally Posted By: Pintonious_Maximus
Come 2021 we can still fix it. If When the Democrats and Northam pull this kind of crap again next year the state will most certainly swing back to where we can get better gun laws, IMO.
FIFY. Unfortunately we will suffer until 2024 looking at the election cycle.


True, thanks for the fix. Why do you say 2024?

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#1630851 - 05/02/20 01:38 PM Re: ********NEW LAWS******* [Re: Pintonious_Maximus]
Swinger Offline
HMFIC

Registered: 06/23/14
Posts: 137
Loc: Smithfield
City or County: Smithfield
Originally Posted By: Pintonious_Maximus


True, thanks for the fix. Why do you say 2024?


Even if we win every seat in every election, it'll take until 2024/5 to get enough seats/votes to undo the damage northscum has caused.
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#1631469 - 05/03/20 06:22 PM Re: ********NEW LAWS******* [Re: VaGunTrader]
BrianJ Offline
Bolt action

Registered: 11/20/10
Posts: 130
Loc: Virginia
City or County: HANOVER
I came here just to read through some of this and see what’s going on with this new law.

At first I thought that since the state is forcing this on us they should be responsible for the UBC, don’t make gun stores waste their employees time (and payroll) doing transfers for guns they’re not selling. Then I figure the state would make such a mess of it we’d be waiting a week for a transfer instead of 30 minutes or so.

Then I thought about the big gun trade someone on this forum brought up around lobby day. Thinking maybe we could clog up the system so bad that they’d just quit this crap. If all of us with a cheap AR or handgun or .22 or whatever just keep trading them amongst ourselves, I mean every few days or week or so. I don’t know, I just know I’m mad and I want to fight this every way I can.

And one last thought. To those who offer discounts to law enforcement for transfers, stop. In fact give a discount to everyone who does not support a tyrannical governor. If a man or woman wants to keep a job where they can shake a person’s hand and do a trade one day, and arrest him the next day because of some law, they don’t deserve a discount.

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#1631475 - 05/03/20 06:29 PM Re: ********NEW LAWS******* [Re: VaGunTrader]
twodents Offline
Pea shooter

Registered: 08/31/14
Posts: 9
Loc: VA
City or County: Stafford
I spoke to the VA state police that do the background checks for FFLs. I was told yesterday that they will NOT be doing background checks for private sales and that private transfers will need to be done at an FFL. I hope he was wrong but he was emphatic. No private sales between people without an FFL in the middle doing the check. Not happy.

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#1631493 - 05/03/20 07:34 PM Re: ********NEW LAWS******* [Re: twodents]
jr45 Offline
Gun fool

Registered: 11/30/08
Posts: 867
Loc: VA
City or County: Stafford
Originally Posted By: twodents
I spoke to the VA state police that do the background checks for FFLs. I was told yesterday that they will NOT be doing background checks for private sales and that private transfers will need to be done at an FFL. I hope he was wrong but he was emphatic. No private sales between people without an FFL in the middle doing the check. Not happy.


VSP will continue do it during gun shows. As for having a FFL do it all other times meets the intent of this so called “law”...to track firearms via the mandatory use of form 4473 when going through an FFL thus; creating a de facto gun registration...this is what Bloomberg, Northam, etc. wanted.

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#1632210 - 05/05/20 01:21 PM Re: ********NEW LAWS******* [Re: VaGunTrader]
piggy Offline
I've traded away my Red Ryder BB gun

Registered: 07/31/11
Posts: 1478
Loc: Hampton
City or County: Hampton
I think we all need to call our legislators and the governor's office and simply ask a question how we citizens can comply with the new law (background check) for private transfer. Where is the implementation plan so we can follow the new law? The background check service should be made available to us without having to pay a fee for each transfer if this is mandated to us. The background check requirement is fine but to some extent, duplication of effort and waste of limited resource. People who have LE credentials, military with top secret security clearance, concealed carry permit holders, etc, have already gone through the background check. May be another way to comply with this law for everyone else should just be submitting a request for background check of yourself. The self background check certification should be valid for a month, 3 months, 6 months, a year, whatever. In an extreme case just as an example, nobody should have to go through a separate background check every single day, if he/she was to have a transfer everyday. State Police should provide this background check service on a regular basis just as they do at gunshow.

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#1632362 - 05/05/20 07:15 PM Re: ********NEW LAWS******* [Re: VaGunTrader]
jr45 Offline
Gun fool

Registered: 11/30/08
Posts: 867
Loc: VA
City or County: Stafford
I’m all for contacting them but I’m sure it will fall on deaf ears as it did before they voted for this atrocity. They want a back door to gun registration and the way they get it is by having private sales go through a FFL which a form 4473 must be completed (don’t think this form is done when background is performed by VSP at shows). Also, the new law also requires reporting lost or stolen guns within 48hrs...no more “lost my guns in a boating accident”. I agree, there needs to be other options for sellers/buyers to perform the checks for those who wish to comply.

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#1633285 - 05/07/20 08:30 PM Re: ********NEW LAWS******* [Re: VaGunTrader]
Ratgun Offline
RATGUN APPROVED!!!!!

Registered: 02/11/13
Posts: 1220
Loc: Vienna
City or County: Vienna
Vienna Arsenal has doubled the size of their showroom, opened 7 days a week with new extended hours AND hired more staff in anticipation of the new laws. For going on 5 years now, we've always had the least expensive transfers($25), never raised our price AND offer discounted FTF transfers to VAGT members. We're not gonna stop now. Like you guys, I don't know the details of how this is all going to work out but I can guarantee that Vienna Arsenal will continue to be the fastest, lowest price most awesomest BEST spot to do transfers.


Edited by Ratgun (05/07/20 08:32 PM)
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#1633287 - 05/07/20 08:32 PM Re: ********NEW LAWS******* [Re: VaGunTrader]
nvcdl Offline
Bullseye

Registered: 04/03/13
Posts: 1777
Loc: ORANGE
City or County: Orange
Yup - deal with these guys (Vienna Arsenal) in confidence. They are also offer decent prices when buying used guns.


Edited by nvcdl (05/07/20 08:33 PM)

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#1633377 - 05/08/20 01:55 AM Re: ********NEW LAWS******* [Re: nvcdl]
Seatbelts Offline
Pea shooter

Registered: 10/14/19
Posts: 11
Loc: VA
City or County: Lynchburg
Honestly of all the laws that got passed the UBC irritates me the most. Every year I go with my Dad to the Roanoke gunshow because it falls on my birthday or right around it. Best part was finding those really awesome deals, from private sellers that are willing to negotiate and deal with you.

I really don't see those kinds of deals continuing to happen after this is passed. Maybe I'm wrong and I hope so but I'm not hopeful.

There won't be much of a show anymore if its all just stores who buy booths and sell for the same price as their shop normally charges cry

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#1633440 - 05/08/20 07:45 AM Re: ********NEW LAWS******* [Re: Seatbelts]
jr45 Offline
Gun fool

Registered: 11/30/08
Posts: 867
Loc: VA
City or County: Stafford
You can still get the deals from private sellers, the VSP will run the checks at the shows. Good news, I believe VSP background checks don’t use forms 4473 thus; no tracking of firearm sales. What is bad is doing a sale through FFL that requires 4473. I’m sure that come Jul, traffic on this site will be impacted.

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#1633829 - 05/08/20 08:04 PM Re: ********NEW LAWS******* [Re: VaGunTrader]
ct241 Offline
Bolt action

Registered: 07/05/12
Posts: 182
Loc: Central VA
City or County: Lynchburg
How does this affect C&R license holders? Do I have to perform a background check if I sell or trade do another FFL-03 in the state? What if I buy an item that isn't C&R eligible? I have an FFL and a CCP, why should I need a UBC.

I'll never support a Democrat for as long as I vote in this country.

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#1633919 - 05/08/20 10:41 PM Re: ********NEW LAWS******* [Re: VaGunTrader]
Yellow1 Offline
Single barrel

Registered: 05/26/15
Posts: 27
Loc: Woodbridge, VA
City or County: Woodbridge
We should all call or visit the governor's office after the pandemic and ask if his new laws applies to criminals.

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#1634048 - 05/09/20 09:15 AM Re: ********NEW LAWS******* [Re: Yellow1]
jr45 Offline
Gun fool

Registered: 11/30/08
Posts: 867
Loc: VA
City or County: Stafford
Northam took the time sign these atrocities during the pandemic...you can see where the priorities of those currently holding office are.

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#1634605 - 05/10/20 01:01 PM Re: ********NEW LAWS******* [Re: jr45]
ScarletWahoo Offline
Pea shooter

Registered: 09/08/19
Posts: 3
Loc: VA
City or County: Charlottesville
Originally Posted By: jr45
Northam took the time sign these atrocities during the pandemic...you can see where the priorities of those currently holding office are.


Yes, and we are one of the wealthiest states in the nation, and rank 49/50 in coronavirus testing. We can see the governor's priorities, he is putting politics in front the safety of his state in all aspects. We are a few years away from having gun laws similar to MD, NJ, and NY unless we find a way to effectively stop new legislation.

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#1637494 - 05/17/20 10:50 AM Re: ********NEW LAWS******* [Re: ScarletWahoo]
jr45 Offline
Gun fool

Registered: 11/30/08
Posts: 867
Loc: VA
City or County: Stafford
What about transfers for those who sometimes get delayed by NICS? Would the seller need to stay with buyer? Or, since money has changed hands and now the firearm is on the FFL's inventory, would it now just be a transfer to the buyer from the FFL's inventory? I would think it becomes a transfer from FFL to buyer since the firearm is now on the FFL's inventory..?

What I am concerned most about having the transfer performed by an FFL is the use of form 4473. This is what the gun grabbers want as it registers the firearms to the buyers (name, address, type of firearm, serial number, etc, etc.). ATF Firearm Tracking

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#1638002 - 05/18/20 05:10 PM Re: ********NEW LAWS******* [Re: jr45]
Hansohn Brothers Offline
NFA Dealer

Registered: 12/15/08
Posts: 1047
Loc: Culpeper
City or County: Culpeper
Originally Posted By: jr45
What about transfers for those who sometimes get delayed by NICS? Would the seller need to stay with buyer? Or, since money has changed hands and now the firearm is on the FFL's inventory, would it now just be a transfer to the buyer from the FFL's inventory? I would think it becomes a transfer from FFL to buyer since the firearm is now on the FFL's inventory..?

What I am concerned most about having the transfer performed by an FFL is the use of form 4473. This is what the gun grabbers what as it registers the firearms to the buyers (name, address, type of firearm, serial number, etc, etc.). ATF Firearm Tracking


Full instructions for dealers are here: https://www.atf.gov/file/110076/download

You have 2 choices when delayed:

- He or she can leave with the firearm, if the private party seller has not left the firearm in the exclusive possession of the FFL. In this case, the FFL does not need to record the firearm in its a&d record. However, if the sale later occurs (because the FFL receives a "proceed" response from NICS or three business days) the private party seller must return to the business premises of the FFL to complete the transfer to the buyer. At that time, the FFL will need to record the transaction as an acquisition from the private party seller in its a&d records and record the disposition to the buyer no later than seven days following the transaction.

- He or she can allow the FFL to keep the firearm at the business pending a response from NICS or until three business days has passed with no response. In this case, the FFL has to take the firearm into inventory and record it as an acquisition from the private party seller in its a&d records. If NICS later issues a "proceed" response, or no response after three business days and the FFL decides to go forward with the transfer, the seller does not need to return to the premises to complete the transfer. The FFL will complete the transfer of the firearm to the buyer and record the disposition to the buyer in its a&d record no later than seven days following the transaction.

As for the 4473, it stays at the dealer location for a minimum of 20 years or until they go out of business. Only then do the records get sent to ATF where they are scanned onto microfiche.
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Virginia's Largest Silencer Dealer
540-748-8155
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#1638994 - 05/20/20 10:12 PM Re: ********NEW LAWS******* [Re: Hansohn Brothers]
GunLvrPhd Offline
Pea shooter

Registered: 05/13/16
Posts: 13
Loc: Virginia
City or County: Falls Church
In Maryland the state police do transfers at their barracks for $12. I doubt they do it out of the kindness of their hearts. MD probably lost a court case.

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#1639275 - 05/21/20 05:24 PM Re: ********NEW LAWS******* [Re: GunLvrPhd]
jr45 Offline
Gun fool

Registered: 11/30/08
Posts: 867
Loc: VA
City or County: Stafford
Originally Posted By: GunLvrPhd
In Maryland the state police do transfers at their barracks for $12. I doubt they do it out of the kindness of their hearts. MD probably lost a court case.


Agree. If mandating the background, the means to comply needs to be provided and not rely solely on private dealers. Example, the VSP provides it at the shows...this needs to be provided more frequently and at locations for the people to have access. Leaving out the requirement for VSP to provide this service was intentional. Force buyers to use Dealers thus; now have a means to track buyers/firearms and as a bonus, cause some animosity and confusion in the mix.

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#1639664 - 05/22/20 12:48 PM Re: ********NEW LAWS******* [Re: VaGunTrader]
Electrician Offline
AKA: Shock Therapist

Registered: 10/16/17
Posts: 386
Loc: Hartfield
City or County: Middlesex
So here's my question. Sorry if it's already been asked before.

We all have a responsibility to be reasonably sure that our prospective buyer is legal to purchase i.e., VA resident, non-felon
etc. I ask when selling. Some folks want to see a DL and/or a CCP. Some folks want copies for their records. To each their own.

Does the new UBC law require recording of serial numbers, transfer of ownership and other "registration" such as the 4473? Or, is the letter of the law only intended to determine if the parties are legal to buy and sell?

The distinction is not a moot point. If the UBC is only intended to ascertain the legal status of the parties, then there is no need to record the sale itself. If a record of the sale is required then this law changes from a background check requirement to a defacto firearms registry. If the former scenario is intended then a buyer and a seller could, in theory at least, present themselves to the VSP and have their background checked with no mention or concern as to what particular firearm is being considered. If the latter scenario is the law, then our legislature and governor have enacted not only Universal Background Checks, but also Universal Registation of Firearms and a seachable list of gun owners. Might it be worth a call to our representatives to determine if a simple background check can be accomplished without a record of the sale and still be in compliance?

Just saying...


Edited by Electrician (05/22/20 12:51 PM)
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#1639715 - 05/22/20 03:22 PM Re: ********NEW LAWS******* [Re: VaGunTrader]
jr45 Offline
Gun fool

Registered: 11/30/08
Posts: 867
Loc: VA
City or County: Stafford
It is mentioned throughout here that going through a dealer, form 4473 must be competed (includes your personal info and gun info including serial #) thus; back door gun registration...this is their intent. This is why our reps and Governor did not include in the law mandating VSP perform the checks except for at gun shows.

Also, mandatory reporting of lost guns within 48hrs so there will be no more “lost my guns in boating accident” excuse. By complying with this atrocity, firearms and you can be tracked.

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#1639889 - 05/23/20 05:28 AM Re: ********NEW LAWS******* [Re: VaGunTrader]
Seatbelts Offline
Pea shooter

Registered: 10/14/19
Posts: 11
Loc: VA
City or County: Lynchburg
Does anyone thing there might be legal grounds to challenge the UBC because of the VSP part, or by arguing that if the FFLs are closed for instance, and thus you are unable to buy the gun your rights are being violated as a law abiding citizen?

I mean its not exactly impossible that another pandemic or something forces the stores to close, and thus depriving you of your constitutional rights to keep and bear arms.

I have no clue if thats actually reasonable or not, just kinda spitballing ideas.

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