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#1655126 - 06/28/20 04:36 PM Re: ********NEW LAWS******* [Re: Hansohn Brothers]
v8unleashed Offline
Sharp Shooter

Registered: 04/04/09
Posts: 2458
Loc: nova
City or County: nova
Originally Posted By: Hansohn Brothers
A background check and transfer are two separate actions. This is shown in the law, paraphrased, a background check shall be performed prior to such purchase, trade or transfer of firearms. $17 max for the background check, dealers are free to charge whatever they want for the transfer.


You're more than welcome to take that position, and you certainly could make the argument either way. I wouldn't advise anyone follow this interpretation, and VSP isn't adopting this reading of the statute. I recommend that you consult with an attorney about whether your interpretation is consistent with the statute, and what your liability might be if you're wrong.

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#1655215 - 06/28/20 07:46 PM Re: ********NEW LAWS******* [Re: VaGunTrader]
jr45 Offline
Gun fool

Registered: 11/30/08
Posts: 890
Loc: VA
City or County: Stafford
Just spoke with a local dealer. He stated he will not do the transfers for the cap of $15 (wonít mention the name as he will be announcing it). For buyers/sellers that choose to attempt to comply with the law, if you donít like the cost, shop around for those dealers meeting the $15 requirements. If dealers refuse (their prerogative), this may help to get the VSP involved in performing the checks since this background is now mandated.

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#1655234 - 06/28/20 08:15 PM Re: ********NEW LAWS******* [Re: VaGunTrader]
nvcdl Offline
Bullseye

Registered: 04/03/13
Posts: 1824
Loc: ORANGE
City or County: Orange
Gander Outdoors will do a transfer for free if you are a member of their Good Sam club (or whatever they call it) - would imagine they will do same for private transfers.

In any event this law is an sneaky attempt to create a gun registry. The fact that they did not exempt CHP permit holders or allow CHPs as proof of background makes this obvious.

You can also sell guns on gunbroker for top dollar if you take decent pics and have a good reputation. I expect that is how I will sell any guns in future.


Edited by nvcdl (06/28/20 08:17 PM)

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#1655415 - 06/29/20 10:41 AM Re: ********NEW LAWS******* [Re: v8unleashed]
Hansohn Brothers Offline
NFA Dealer

Registered: 12/15/08
Posts: 1064
Loc: Culpeper
City or County: Culpeper
Originally Posted By: v8unleashed

You're more than welcome to take that position, and you certainly could make the argument either way. I wouldn't advise anyone follow this interpretation, and VSP isn't adopting this reading of the statute. I recommend that you consult with an attorney about whether your interpretation is consistent with the statute, and what your liability might be if you're wrong.
To be consistent with Commonwealth law, we will charge $2 for the background check (what VSP charges us). The Federal paperwork handling, for which there is no cap and outside the scope of the Commonwealth, will cost $23.
_________________________
Hansohn Brothers
Virginia's Largest Silencer Dealer
540-748-8155
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#1655433 - 06/29/20 11:33 AM Re: ********NEW LAWS******* [Re: VaGunTrader]
jr45 Offline
Gun fool

Registered: 11/30/08
Posts: 890
Loc: VA
City or County: Stafford
Here is what the law which states the max fees that are to be charged. If dealers believe they can charge more, that is their choice. If you donít like it, find another dealer as there are a few who will stay within the max fee listed in the law and want to have as many people as possible to visit their store. If finding a complaint dealer becomes a problem (it may for some), we will then need to push to have VSP performer these checks to support us staying within the intent of the law. The benefits of using VSP, is no form 4473 is completed which tracks the our purchase.

The designated dealer shall collect and disseminate the fees prescribed in ß 18.2-308.2:2 as required by that section. The dealer may charge and retain an additional fee not to exceed $15 for obtaining a criminal history record information check on behalf of a seller.

New Law

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#1655449 - 06/29/20 11:51 AM Re: ********NEW LAWS******* [Re: jr45]
Hansohn Brothers Offline
NFA Dealer

Registered: 12/15/08
Posts: 1064
Loc: Culpeper
City or County: Culpeper
Originally Posted By: jr45
...we will then need to push to have VSP performer these checks to support us staying within the intent of the law. The benefits of using VSP, is no form 4473 is completed which tracks the our purchase.

The VSP checks are in violation of Federal law and will not continue post 1 July.

GOA Alleges VA State Police Running Illegal Background Checks

Hopefully, the GOA and VCDL lawsuit can end this bulls!t of a law.
_________________________
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Virginia's Largest Silencer Dealer
540-748-8155
Follow us on Instagram

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#1655468 - 06/29/20 12:01 PM Re: ********NEW LAWS******* [Re: Hansohn Brothers]
jr45 Offline
Gun fool

Registered: 11/30/08
Posts: 890
Loc: VA
City or County: Stafford
The intent of the law is for everyone to loose.


Edited by jr45 (06/29/20 12:07 PM)

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#1655479 - 06/29/20 12:21 PM Re: ********NEW LAWS******* [Re: jr45]
Hansohn Brothers Offline
NFA Dealer

Registered: 12/15/08
Posts: 1064
Loc: Culpeper
City or County: Culpeper
Originally Posted By: jr45
The intent of the law is for everyone to loose.
You are correct.
_________________________
Hansohn Brothers
Virginia's Largest Silencer Dealer
540-748-8155
Follow us on Instagram

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#1655832 - 06/30/20 02:48 AM Re: ********NEW LAWS******* [Re: VaGunTrader]
dk148 Offline
Domestic Arms Dealer

Registered: 11/21/08
Posts: 2552
Loc: Bowling Green, VA
City or County: Bowling Green
The VA background check is only part of what an FFL does for any transfer. The firearm being transferred has to be entered in your bound book for ATF compliance (this has nothing to do with VA). The firearm being transferred has to be dispostioned out of your bound book for ATF compliance (this has nothing to do with VA). The only way to dispose of a firearm in your bound book to a non-FFL is with form 4473, which again has nothing to do with the state of Virginia. That same form 4473 has to be kept by the FFL for 20 years or until they go out of business. That cost money especially when you consider how much space these forms take up when you accumulate tens of thousands of them.

We will be charging Zero for the State background check. We will be collecting $2.00 for the VSP and charging $35.00 for the 4473.
_________________________
DK Firearms
202 North Main Street
Bowling Green, VA 22427
804-633-2222
Monday- Saturday 11:00am-7:00pm
https://dkfirearms.com/
sales@dkfirearms.com
https://www.facebook.com/dkfirearmsllc




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#1655833 - 06/30/20 02:55 AM Re: ********NEW LAWS******* [Re: v8unleashed]
dk148 Offline
Domestic Arms Dealer

Registered: 11/21/08
Posts: 2552
Loc: Bowling Green, VA
City or County: Bowling Green
Originally Posted By: v8unleashed
Originally Posted By: Hansohn Brothers
A background check and transfer are two separate actions. This is shown in the law, paraphrased, a background check shall be performed prior to such purchase, trade or transfer of firearms. $17 max for the background check, dealers are free to charge whatever they want for the transfer.


You're more than welcome to take that position, and you certainly could make the argument either way. I wouldn't advise anyone follow this interpretation, and VSP isn't adopting this reading of the statute. I recommend that you consult with an attorney about whether your interpretation is consistent with the statute, and what your liability might be if you're wrong.


The state of Virginia cant regulate what a Federally licensed dealer can charge for processing Federal forms and federal recording keeping requirements.

There are also no penalties for dealers that do not comply with the law, listed in the law.

Also an FFL can refuse to perform any transfer, with or without giving a reason.
_________________________
DK Firearms
202 North Main Street
Bowling Green, VA 22427
804-633-2222
Monday- Saturday 11:00am-7:00pm
https://dkfirearms.com/
sales@dkfirearms.com
https://www.facebook.com/dkfirearmsllc




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#1655885 - 06/30/20 07:47 AM Re: ********NEW LAWS******* [Re: VaGunTrader]
jr45 Offline
Gun fool

Registered: 11/30/08
Posts: 890
Loc: VA
City or County: Stafford
Quote:
The state of Virginia cant regulate what a Federally licensed dealer can charge for processing Federal forms and federal recording keeping requirements.

There are also no penalties for dealers that do not comply with the law, listed in the law.

Also an FFL can refuse to perform any transfer, with or without giving a reason.

This^ Northam and his cronies knew the trouble and animosity it would create when writing this atrocity of a law. Have the sellers/buyers fight it out with the FFL dealers....brilliant.

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#1655914 - 06/30/20 09:05 AM Re: ********NEW LAWS******* [Re: jr45]
dk148 Offline
Domestic Arms Dealer

Registered: 11/21/08
Posts: 2552
Loc: Bowling Green, VA
City or County: Bowling Green
Originally Posted By: jr45
Quote:
The state of Virginia cant regulate what a Federally licensed dealer can charge for processing Federal forms and federal recording keeping requirements.

There are also no penalties for dealers that do not comply with the law, listed in the law.

Also an FFL can refuse to perform any transfer, with or without giving a reason.

This^ Northam and his cronies knew the trouble and animosity it would create when writing this atrocity of a law. Have the sellers/buyers fight it out with the FFL dealers....brilliant.


Not really, as there is nothing to fight over. Private sales are gone because Democrats took over the state. They are putting in their wet dream of a law to abolish private sales. The whole max $15.00 for the virginia background check is just an example of Democrats making laws about things they do not understand. Because VA is a point of contact state they somehow think that the background check is the only requirement for performing a transfer.

Also keep in mind with delays being as long as they are recently, the firearms in these private sales will end up being in the FFL's possession overnight or for hours at a time before the background check is completed. It's not like the seller can take it home with them and come back another day.

This whole thing will be a mess and $15.00 to facilitate the transaction is not enough to tie up an employee that could be doing something more productive. Also every transaction is another chance to create compliance and liability issues. Not to mention storage and potential firearms traces.

Think of this scenario. Private sale comes in, we recieve the firearms serial number into our books from the seller. I would hope the seller has already been paid for the firearm before we perform the background check. The buyer does the background check and gets delayed for 24 hours. After the approval they can come and pick the firearm up. But what if they get denied, then what? They paid for a firearm they cant have and the seller is gone, so no one to return the firearm too. Even if the seller wants the gun back, now they have to do a background check. What if the buyer that got denied wants to sell the gun to his buddy? How would the Feds view that potential straw purchase now?

It's a mess.
_________________________
DK Firearms
202 North Main Street
Bowling Green, VA 22427
804-633-2222
Monday- Saturday 11:00am-7:00pm
https://dkfirearms.com/
sales@dkfirearms.com
https://www.facebook.com/dkfirearmsllc




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#1656068 - 06/30/20 02:01 PM Re: ********NEW LAWS******* [Re: VaGunTrader]
ct241 Offline
Bolt action

Registered: 07/05/12
Posts: 186
Loc: Central VA
City or County: Lynchburg
It would appear that firearms that qualify as C&R are exempt from this law:

Quote:
"Curios or relics" means firearms that are of special interest to collectors by reason of some quality other than is associated with firearms intended for sporting use or as offensive or defensive weapons. To be recognized as curios or relics, firearms must fall within one of the following categories:

1. Firearms that were manufactured at least 50 years prior to the current date, which use rimfire or conventional centerfire fixed ammunition that is no longer manufactured in the United States and that is not readily available in the ordinary channels of commercial trade, but not including replicas thereof;

2. Firearms that are certified by the curator of a municipal, state, or federal museum that exhibits firearms to be curios or relics of museum interest; and

3. Any other firearms that derive a substantial part of their monetary value from the fact that they are novel, rare, bizarre, or because of their association with some historical figure, period, or event. Proof of qualification of a particular firearm under this category may be established by evidence of present value and evidence that like firearms are not available except as collectors' items, or that the value of like firearms available in ordinary commercial channels is substantially less.


I saw this mentioned in another thread but hadn't seen any other mention of it. Note that 3rd point...seems very open to interpretation... darn near anything not in current production would quality.

Also not sure if having an FFL-03 allows you to bypass needing a UBC to purchase non C&R guns in a private sale as only the buyer needs a UBC... might be another way around the law.

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#1656079 - 06/30/20 02:23 PM Re: ********NEW LAWS******* [Re: ct241]
Hansohn Brothers Offline
NFA Dealer

Registered: 12/15/08
Posts: 1064
Loc: Culpeper
City or County: Culpeper
Originally Posted By: ct241

Also not sure if having an FFL-03 allows you to bypass needing a UBC to purchase non C&R guns in a private sale as only the buyer needs a UBC... might be another way around the law.
No, an FFL03 does not allow bypassing the UBC except if both buyer and seller are FFL03.
_________________________
Hansohn Brothers
Virginia's Largest Silencer Dealer
540-748-8155
Follow us on Instagram

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#1656246 - 07/01/20 08:04 AM Re: ********NEW LAWS******* [Re: dk148]
Nathan777 Offline
Pea shooter

Registered: 04/06/10
Posts: 18
Loc: Alexandria
City or County: Fairfax
Originally Posted By: dk148
The VA background check is only part of what an FFL does for any transfer. The firearm being transferred has to be entered in your bound book for ATF compliance (this has nothing to do with VA). The firearm being transferred has to be dispostioned out of your bound book for ATF compliance (this has nothing to do with VA). The only way to dispose of a firearm in your bound book to a non-FFL is with form 4473, which again has nothing to do with the state of Virginia. That same form 4473 has to be kept by the FFL for 20 years or until they go out of business. That cost money especially when you consider how much space these forms take up when you accumulate tens of thousands of them.

We will be charging Zero for the State background check. We will be collecting $2.00 for the VSP and charging $35.00 for the 4473.


But you're not doing a transfer. Literally the law just wants you to do the check and tell the person "yep, he's good." I don't believe you're interpreting this correctly. I understand you're just covering your **VOTE IN NOVEMBER** and playing it safe, but not sure it's going to win you fans.

Edit: Nope, looks like I may be wrong. I'm guessing this was not the intent of the law, but it seems if an FFL facilitates transfer between private individuals then they are required to do a 4473. Yikes. https://www.atf.gov/file/110076/download


Edited by Nathan777 (07/01/20 08:59 AM)

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#1656306 - 07/01/20 11:13 AM Re: ********NEW LAWS******* [Re: Nathan777]
Hansohn Brothers Offline
NFA Dealer

Registered: 12/15/08
Posts: 1064
Loc: Culpeper
City or County: Culpeper
Originally Posted By: Nathan777

But you're not doing a transfer. Literally the law just wants you to do the check and tell the person "yep, he's good." I don't believe you're interpreting this correctly. I understand you're just covering your **VOTE IN NOVEMBER** and playing it safe, but not sure it's going to win you fans.

Edit: Nope, looks like I may be wrong. I'm guessing this was not the intent of the law, but it seems if an FFL facilitates transfer between private individuals then they are required to do a 4473. Yikes. https://www.atf.gov/file/110076/download

Yeah, as dealers we have to follow both state and Federal regulations. I'd love to just do background checks but that isn't that case unfortunately.
_________________________
Hansohn Brothers
Virginia's Largest Silencer Dealer
540-748-8155
Follow us on Instagram

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#1656525 - Yesterday at 10:33 AM Re: ********NEW LAWS******* [Re: Nathan777]
dk148 Offline
Domestic Arms Dealer

Registered: 11/21/08
Posts: 2552
Loc: Bowling Green, VA
City or County: Bowling Green
Originally Posted By: Nathan777
Originally Posted By: dk148
The VA background check is only part of what an FFL does for any transfer. The firearm being transferred has to be entered in your bound book for ATF compliance (this has nothing to do with VA). The firearm being transferred has to be dispostioned out of your bound book for ATF compliance (this has nothing to do with VA). The only way to dispose of a firearm in your bound book to a non-FFL is with form 4473, which again has nothing to do with the state of Virginia. That same form 4473 has to be kept by the FFL for 20 years or until they go out of business. That cost money especially when you consider how much space these forms take up when you accumulate tens of thousands of them.

We will be charging Zero for the State background check. We will be collecting $2.00 for the VSP and charging $35.00 for the 4473.


But you're not doing a transfer. Literally the law just wants you to do the check and tell the person "yep, he's good." I don't believe you're interpreting this correctly. I understand you're just covering your **VOTE IN NOVEMBER** and playing it safe, but not sure it's going to win you fans.

Edit: Nope, looks like I may be wrong. I'm guessing this was not the intent of the law, but it seems if an FFL facilitates transfer between private individuals then they are required to do a 4473. Yikes. https://www.atf.gov/file/110076/download


Yikes indeed. The state dosen't seem to care about anything other than what they want. BTW, pretty cool of you to look if up and post a correction!

Funny thing is that the state of Virginia will charge a person with a felony for lying on the state background check form. But they will also charge with another felony for lying on the FED form. So at one time VA understood that both forms are filled out in conjunction. You cant have one without another. Also the ATF clarified the serial number requirements a year or two ago. We have to write serial numbers on the 4473 before the transfer is completed. Even if the person gets denied, a serial number of the firearm they were trying to get has to be on the form. So it's not like we can just hand the seller back his gun if the buyer gets denied. The seller would then have to do a background check to get the gun back.
_________________________
DK Firearms
202 North Main Street
Bowling Green, VA 22427
804-633-2222
Monday- Saturday 11:00am-7:00pm
https://dkfirearms.com/
sales@dkfirearms.com
https://www.facebook.com/dkfirearmsllc




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