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#1859070 - 02/23/22 10:43 PM Denied Shotguns on Flight
kjack Offline
Old Left Handed Navy Guy

Registered: 01/14/09
Posts: 852
Loc: Chesterfield
City or County: Chesterfield
On Wednesday, Feb 16 2022, at approximately 6 am, I arrived at Richmond Airport RIC for flights to Kansas City MCI AA3870 and 3856 enroute to a hunting trip in South Dakota. I had 2 shotguns, assembled, in a Gun Guard plastic travel case with three locks.

I was told by the American Airlines agent that because the 4 snap closures could be opened and the guns could be “touched” from the outside of the case, the case was disallowed. The agent said that this was a TSA directive. At no time was the case opened to see that the guns had “gun sock” (silicone impregnated cloth) and the touching wouldn’t be the gun, but the outer covering. There was no ammunition in the case.

After “touching”, no attempt was made to remove the gun from the case with the locks in place. The geometry of the long guns and location of the locks would have made removal from the case problematic, at best. Granted, a hammer and chisel could be used to break the locks but because the special handling formerly afforded my guns over the past 8 years of traveling out of RIC, such an occurrence is less likely. The somewhat specialized calibers (16 and 28 gauge) also mitigated against use of the guns in an immediate illegal manner but that was never part of the conversation.

If you are familiar with the reference, it was like being on double secret probation.

Two Richmond police officers were called over (with body cams) to politely hear my rant. I picked up my REAL ID, retired military ID card, and concealed handgun permit and walked away.

I was so angry that I did not take the names of any of the individuals involved. At no time did I deal with a TSA REPRESENTATIVE.

I returned the guns to my car and boarded my flight. The guns were returned to my home by my son who picked up my car after an inbound flight later that day. Facing significant financial loss in case of lodge reservation cancellation, I used one of the loaner guns offered by my friend in Kansas.

WHAT I WOULD LIKE TO KNOW ISTHE SOURCE AND CITATION FOR THE-RULING, who made the interpretation, and when was it implemented and where/how was it disseminated. Current TSA web site does not cite this guidance. How many “touches” resulted in danger to the public or thefts of long guns?

I also think that the Plano, Doskocil and GunGuard companies, with probably millions of similar items sold, would like to know that they are selling unsatisfactory products. I will pursue that separately.

I forwarded this write up to both my Congressional representative (Ms Spanberger) and American Airlines. Ms Spanberger’s office could do nothing and I have not received a response from American. For whatever reason, the complaint function at TSA web site would not accept the text(maybe due to length).

I’m still perplexed and angry.


John

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#1859175 - 02/24/22 09:50 AM Re: Denied Shotguns on Flight [Re: kjack]
panic788 Offline
Marksman

Registered: 08/29/13
Posts: 385
Loc: NOVA
City or County: Alexandria
It's a shame you couldn't take them with you.

https://www.aa.com/i18n/travel-info/baggage/firearms-and-ammunition.jsp#:~:text=You%20must%20check%20them%20with,the%20firearm%20is%20totally%20inaccessible

The above should have the highlighted language from American Airlines as to their check in policy. They do have a stipulation that the firearm be totally inaccessible. I would say that being able to touch it while forcefully attempting to open the case, probably is being very generous to the definition of totally inaccessible, but that would seem to be the sticking point as far as policy goes.

https://www.tsa.gov/contact/customer-service

The link just above is to contact the TSA specifically for questions. I would guess that they would defer to the private company that is doing the check-in process, and say if you had issues, take it up with them, until it got to a TSA checkpoint, in which case they would be able to confirm or do anything about it.

It would seem that the lesson learned is, if there is a question about how the rules would or should play out, ask in advance. The extra details as to flight number and caliber, while informative, probably don't have any real bearing on the situation. Names of the individuals would have been better because then you would be able to follow up about it later, and if there was something that needed re-training, those folks who needed the training could be specified.

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#1859515 - 02/25/22 09:07 AM Re: Denied Shotguns on Flight [Re: kjack]
bustedknee Offline
Curmudgeon

Registered: 02/17/10
Posts: 1750
Loc: Southwest Va
City or County: Wythe
TSA has no tolerance for common sense.

Your mistake was thinking you live in Free America.

I was told, if I didn't like having my rights violated by TSA - I could avoid it by not flying.



Edited by bustedknee (02/25/22 09:08 AM)
_________________________
"I am old, sick, and tired of living. If you feel the need to mess with me, go right ahead."
My Uncle, with his hand on his pistol (in his pocket), talking to a troublemaker.

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#1859560 - 02/25/22 11:37 AM Re: Denied Shotguns on Flight [Re: panic788]
kjack Offline
Old Left Handed Navy Guy

Registered: 01/14/09
Posts: 852
Loc: Chesterfield
City or County: Chesterfield
Thank you. Best summary of the situation and mitigation.

If I hadn’t traveled at least twice a year with guns for the past 6 years, I wouldn’t be so upset by being blindsided this time.

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#1860190 - 02/26/22 08:33 PM Re: Denied Shotguns on Flight [Re: kjack]
Agent19 Offline
2A 4 All

Registered: 01/12/09
Posts: 3669
Loc: VA
City or County: 22973
I have found it best to ship long guns to your hotel or the hunting guide you are going to use..

Darn shame this happened.
_________________________
I’ll gladly take questionable mean tweets, a strong economy, energy independence and a Respected Country, over high inflation, millions of illegals aliens, mask/ vaccine mandates and pedophile in chief.




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#1862211 - 03/04/22 08:56 AM Re: Denied Shotguns on Flight [Re: kjack]
Ali Offline
Gun fool

Registered: 01/08/12
Posts: 1061
Loc: VA, USA
City or County: Fairfax
I've stopped flying once the TSA was implemented, except for an all expense paid trip by the girl to Lake Tahoe. Flight sucked due to useless mask protocols.

Their power is too vast and too unconstitutional.

Reminded me of why I haven't flown since 2000.

Next time go for a road trip!
_________________________
"Universal truth is not measured in mass appeal." -- Immortal Technique

"To conquer a nation you must first disarms the citizens" --Adolf Hitler 1933

"Write it down and remember that we never gave in." - Immortal Technique

"Fight fire with water." Me

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