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#858310 - 02/16/15 01:36 PM Communism in the United States Today
lue-jones Offline
Demigod

Registered: 02/17/12
Posts: 611
Loc: Virginia, USA.
City or County: Vinton
This is a subject which should be near and dear to every American because it has direct and far reaching meaning and consequences to our national identity. When the lines begin to be blurred between the capitalistic system the United States is based around and the hallmarks of communism we cease to be who we once were and begin to change into something we were never intended to be. Once that occurs, your national identity is skewed and the definition of what it means to be an American becomes perverted.

I first became aware of the issues facing our country after listening to retired Lt. General Jerry Boykin bravely discuss the issues he see's facing our nation. Not being satisfied with taking his word on the subject, I began to look into the subject closer and discovered he is absolutely correct.

Quote:
Boykins elements of Marxist/Communist Insurgency

1. Nationalization

An example of nationalization in the United States is government bailouts of the automotive industry.

2. Wealth Redistribution

An example of wealth redistribution in the United States is Obamacare

3. Discrediting of the opposition

An example of discrediting the opposition in the United States is the labeling of returning veterans, patriots etc. as domestic terrorists.

4. Censorship

An example of censorship in the United States is hate crimes legislation which is designed to prevent pastors from talking to their parrish about homosexuality.

5. Control of Gun ownership

This is probably the last place I need to provide examples of gun control in the United States. Take a look at the recent rhetoric surrounding Universal Background Checks, bans on specific types of ammunition etc. There is a long list to go through.

6. Force to control the population

An example of a constable force in the United States is the creation of the Department of Homeland Security.


Below is a link to one of retired Lt. General Jerry Bokyins speech's on the Marxist/Communist problems plaguing our nation. Please take the time to listen to his words, though a great deal of what he is speaking about is highlighted above.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8jxwqTecZgU

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#858318 - 02/16/15 01:45 PM Re: Communism in the United States Today [Re: lue-jones]
lue-jones Offline
Demigod

Registered: 02/17/12
Posts: 611
Loc: Virginia, USA.
City or County: Vinton
Listed below is what is commonly referred to as the Ten Planks of Communism as written by Communism co-founder Karl Marx. While some of these points have yet to come to fruition, and others are very much open for interpretation the fact remains we're dangerously close to a great number of these and other hallmarks of communism. And without informing and educating the American public on the issue, how long before we find ourselves in a position we do not wish to be in?

10 planks of communism by Karl Marx

1. Abolition of private property in land and application of all rents of land to public purpose.

This is where eminent domain comes into the picture, and even property taxes. Once you own your property outright by paying off your mortgage, you still don’t technically own it because the government could jack up property taxes so high that it makes it unaffordable to remain.

2. A heavy progressive or graduated income tax.

Marginal tax rates increasing as income goes up IS a graduated income tax. This is in opposition to a more fair tax like a national sales tax or flat tax where a person is not taxed at a higher rate the more income they earn.

3. Abolition of all rights of inheritance.

In the U.S. these can be seen as estate taxes (i.e. the death tax).

4. Confiscation of the property of all emigrants and rebels.

This is nothing more than government seizures, IRS property confiscation and the 1997 Crime/Terrorist bill which calls for the imprisonment of terrorists (not such a bad thing), but also for those who speak out against the government. Your LIFE is the most valuable property you have, but the government has the right to take it away because of things that you may say. Consider Senate Bill 3081, the “Enemy Belligerent, Interrogation, Detention, and Prosecution Act of 2010,” co-sponsored by Sens. John McCain and Joe Lieberman. The following is actual text from the bill that explains what a belligerent may be and the reasons they can be detained without due process: “(A) The potential threat the individual poses for an attack on civilians or civilian facilities within the United States or upon United States citizens or United States civilian facilities abroad at the time of capture or when coming under the custody or control of the United States… (B) The potential threat the individual poses to United States military personnel or United States military facilities at the time of capture or when coming under the custody or control of the United States…. (C) The potential intelligence value of the individual… (D) Membership in al-Qaida or in a terrorist group affiliated with al-Qaida… (E) Such other matters as the president considers appropriate. . .” [THIS IS WHERE THERE IS A MAJOR, MAJOR PROBLEM] This is very subjective and could include a multitude of things – even just disagreements on policy!

5. Centralization of credit in the hands of the state, by means of a national bank with state capital and an exclusive monopoly.

This is an easy one. The Federal Reserve Act of 1913 created the Federal Reserve, and now the government owns many of the country’s largest banks via bailout money. Government control of private industry is just a polite way of saying FASCISM!!!!

6. Centralization of the means of communication and transportation in the hands of the state.

The FAA, FCC, and the ICC (Interstate Commerce Commission) are all government entities that propose to regulate how we travel and what is said. There is nothing particularly disturbing about this now, but what about in the future? Could the government shut down communication or transportation for various people groups? Yes, they could pretty much do whatever they want. There is no competition here. There is no free market private entity as a choice. I thought the government made monopolies illegal? Oh, that’s right they did, except for where they have a monopoly.

7. Extension of factories and instruments of production owned by the state; the bringing into cultivation of waste lands, and the improvement of the soil generally in accordance with a common plan.

Recent events have made this one very disturbing. On June 9, 2011 President Obama signed into law Executive Order 13575 in which the intent is to seize greater power over “food, fiber, and energy.” A great article explaining this was written by Raven Clabough and posted on the New American website.

8. Equal obligation of all to work and the establishment of industrial armies, especially for agriculture.

Because of high inflation and higher taxes our society has been thrust into a dual income family at the minimum. In many instances both husband and wife have multiple jobs.

9. Combination of agriculture with manufacturing industries; gradual abolition of the distinction between town and country by a more equable distribution of the population over the country.

I am not qualified to answer this question, as I don’t really know of any combination of the two industries. In fact it seems what we have in this country is opposite as there seems to be a corralling of people into the urban areas. However, Executive Order 13575 mentioned in Plank 7 may be related to this.

10. Free education for all children in government schools and abolition of children’s factory labor in its present form – combination of education with industrial production, etc.

The public school system and the department of education indoctrinate our kids into the agenda that the federal government wants for our children. Both the national department of education and the state level departments of education adhere to an outcome based education model where excellence in not rewarded and lackluster performance is not dealt with in the proper manner so kids don’t get their feelings hurt. The whole standard of “equalization” is drilled into our kids’ heads through the public school system so by the time they graduate they are “socialized.”


Analyzing where America is now

In the United States we fulfill Marx’s 10 planks of a complete communist state on 1-8, and 10, kind of on 7 and maybe on 9. So, according to Marx’s vision of communism we are about 90 percent there. Good grief! It’s time to wake up and take action now before it is too late and the freedoms that we have come to expect in our beloved country are stripped away from us.


Read more at http://www.wnd.com/2011/07/319117/#wRKc1jFaQrCs4xUw.99

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#858327 - 02/16/15 02:07 PM Re: Communism in the United States Today [Re: lue-jones]
lue-jones Offline
Demigod

Registered: 02/17/12
Posts: 611
Loc: Virginia, USA.
City or County: Vinton
This will actually be my forth attempt at posting this thread, with my previous three attempts having resulted in browser crashes with all information lost. My first attempt was a much more in depth analyses, but in the interest of K.I.S.S this is the abbreviated version.

Below you will read many points which sound frighteningly familiar, with examples coming to mind immediately that have brought these issues to fruition. Some will not sound so familiar, while others can easily be interpreted in numerous ways depending on your individual assessment and familiarization with the subject.

Quote:
The Communist Takeover Of America - 45 Declared Goals


[From "The Naked Communist," by Cleon Skousen]

1. U.S. acceptance of coexistence as the only alternative to atomic war.

2. U.S. willingness to capitulate in preference to engaging in atomic war.

3. Develop the illusion that total disarmament [by] the United States would be a demonstration of moral strength.

4. Permit free trade between all nations regardless of Communist affiliation and regardless of whether or not items could be used for war.

5. Extension of long-term loans to Russia and Soviet satellites.

6. Provide American aid to all nations regardless of Communist domination.

7. Grant recognition of Red China. Admission of Red China to the U.N.

8. Set up East and West Germany as separate states in spite of Khrushchev's promise in 1955 to settle the German question by free elections under supervision of the U.N.

9. Prolong the conferences to ban atomic tests because the United States has agreed to suspend tests as long as negotiations are in progress.

10. Allow all Soviet satellites individual representation in the U.N.

11. Promote the U.N. as the only hope for mankind. If its charter is rewritten, demand that it be set up as a one-world government with its own independent armed forces. (Some Communist leaders believe the world can be taken over as easily by the U.N. as by Moscow. Sometimes these two centers compete with each other as they are now doing in the Congo.)

12. Resist any attempt to outlaw the Communist Party.

13. Do away with all loyalty oaths.

14. Continue giving Russia access to the U.S. Patent Office.

15. Capture one or both of the political parties in the United States.

16. Use technical decisions of the courts to weaken basic American institutions by claiming their activities violate civil rights.

17. Get control of the schools. Use them as transmission belts for socialism and current Communist propaganda. Soften the curriculum. Get control of teachers' associations. Put the party line in textbooks.

18. Gain control of all student newspapers.

19. Use student riots to foment public protests against programs or organizations which are under Communist attack.

20. Infiltrate the press. Get control of book-review assignments, editorial writing, policy-making positions.

21. Gain control of key positions in radio, TV, and motion pictures.

22. Continue discrediting American culture by degrading all forms of artistic expression. An American Communist cell was told to "eliminate all good sculpture from parks and buildings, substitute shapeless, awkward and meaningless forms."

23. Control art critics and directors of art museums. "Our plan is to promote ugliness, repulsive, meaningless art."

24. Eliminate all laws governing obscenity by calling them "censorship" and a violation of free speech and free press.

25. Break down cultural standards of morality by promoting pornography and obscenity in books, magazines, motion pictures, radio, and TV.

26. Present homosexuality, degeneracy and promiscuity as "normal, natural, healthy."

27. Infiltrate the churches and replace revealed religion with "social" religion. Discredit the Bible and emphasize the need for intellectual maturity, which does not need a "religious crutch."

28. Eliminate prayer or any phase of religious expression in the schools on the ground that it violates the principle of "separation of church and state."

29. Discredit the American Constitution by calling it inadequate, old-fashioned, out of step with modern needs, a hindrance to cooperation between nations on a worldwide basis.

30. Discredit the American Founding Fathers. Present them as selfish aristocrats who had no concern for the "common man."

31. Belittle all forms of American culture and discourage the teaching of American history on the ground that it was only a minor part of the "big picture." Give more emphasis to Russian history since the Communists took over.

32. Support any socialist movement to give centralized control over any part of the culture--education, social agencies, welfare programs, mental health clinics, etc.

33. Eliminate all laws or procedures which interfere with the operation of the Communist apparatus.

34. Eliminate the House Committee on Un-American Activities.

35. Discredit and eventually dismantle the FBI.

36. Infiltrate and gain control of more unions.

37. Infiltrate and gain control of big business.

38. Transfer some of the powers of arrest from the police to social agencies. Treat all behavioral problems as psychiatric disorders which no one but psychiatrists can understand [or treat].

39. Dominate the psychiatric profession and use mental health laws as a means of gaining coercive control over those who oppose Communist goals.

40. Discredit the family as an institution. Encourage promiscuity and easy divorce.

41. Emphasize the need to raise children away from the negative influence of parents. Attribute prejudices, mental blocks and retarding of children to suppressive influence of parents.

42. Create the impression that violence and insurrection are legitimate aspects of the American tradition; that students and special-interest groups should rise up and use ["]united force["] to solve economic, political or social problems.

43. Overthrow all colonial governments before native populations are ready for self-government.

44. Internationalize the Panama Canal.

45. Repeal the Connally reservation so the United States cannot prevent the World Court from seizing jurisdiction [over domestic problems. Give the World Court jurisdiction] over nations and individuals alike.


http://www.rense.com/general32/americ.htm

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#858335 - 02/16/15 02:22 PM Re: Communism in the United States Today [Re: lue-jones]
lue-jones Offline
Demigod

Registered: 02/17/12
Posts: 611
Loc: Virginia, USA.
City or County: Vinton
Below is a documentary for those interested in learning more which highlights exactly what communism should mean to you.

The video below discusses social engineering, where 10% of society was killed in order to restructure the population into something much easier to control through fear, intimidation, propaganda and mass murder.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tyIZiRCvqVM

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#858340 - 02/16/15 02:41 PM Re: Communism in the United States Today [Re: lue-jones]
lue-jones Offline
Demigod

Registered: 02/17/12
Posts: 611
Loc: Virginia, USA.
City or County: Vinton
According to author John Sparrow, the terms socialism and marxism are practically synonomous with one another. It is common knowledge that Karl Marx is the co-author of the Communist Manifesto, which is required reading for anyone interested in learning more about the subject.

Marxism is a term which relates to the theoretical practice and implementation of communist doctrine and ideology. There are many people who will attempt to differentiate the terms, but for all intents and purposes a communist by any other name is still a communists.

The Influence of Karl Marx on Contemporary Socialism

The United States once took it upon itself to stamp out the flow of communism across the world due to the threat it posed to American society and its way of life. Many of our veterans here went to war under the impression they were helping to stop the flow of communism. Countless American lives have been lost in the name of freedom, yet sadly when we look at the state of our country now it would appear communism has came to the shores of the United States.

Many Americans today are all to willing to turn a blind eye to the plight of our country and are instead comfortable in going along with the circumvention of our nation and the perversion of what it means to be American due to a number of facts. A lack of education about the subject, a willingness to trade freedom in the name of safety, the convenience of doing nother and trusting others to handle the important work. Only, one only needs to look at the numerous examples of atrocity across the world in the name of communism to see putting your faith in others can be a grave mistake.

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#858919 - 02/17/15 04:32 PM Re: Communism in the United States Today [Re: lue-jones]
scythefwd Offline
Pea Shooter

Registered: 02/19/11
Posts: 2430
Loc: KS
City or County: Lenexa
Well lue, lets take this line by line.

The General, while very much right on his assessment, appears to be mislabeling things or assigning attributes.

Specifically 5. Its not listed under one of the planks from marx's own list you put later.

The manifesto is of a group trying to overthrow the current form of government.. they're about taking power.. not idealists at that point.

Marx was a dictator. He used a perverted form of communism for control. If you look at the 10 planks of Karl Marx's version of communism, you'll not see disarmament of the citizenship or gun control. That is the only thing I argue... is that gun control is not a "plank" or tenant of communism. It IS a tool repressive governments use to enforce communism upon their subjects. That is the reason the disarmament is mention in the communist takeover of America.. cant force a change on an unwilling populace if they have the means to fight back. Its very much about control and subjugation.
The General was very much right on his appraisal of what is wrong, I agree with him completely.

The problem, is that everyone refers to communism/marxism. Why is that, communism existed LONG before Karl Marx. In its purest form, communism is an ideal that cannot exist... Communism is communal property, equal responsibility of all for all. Most every government that as set itself up on "communist" do it more as a method of controlling a lower caste. Thats where it gets perverted. Lenon, Marx, etc were all abut setting up a caste system, the controlling and the controlled (very similar to the way congress is running now...). If you look at the ideology of communism, its intent is to get rid of the caste system, which is antithetical to to setting up a controlling system. If you look at say a buddhist temple (frequently called a commune), you'll see a social system much closer to what the ideal of communism is. You'll also see why its not a viable governmental system.

The taking of the property isnt gun control.. its the total taking of everything, land, house, freedom, etc.

Our whole disagreement on this is whether gun control is a tenant of communism or not. I say it isn't, but a tool used by oppressive governments to enforce their rule.. which is seen in every government setup. Either by laws, force, etc.. gun control is the precursor to force.



Edited by scythefwd (02/17/15 04:36 PM)

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#858945 - 02/17/15 05:20 PM Re: Communism in the United States Today [Re: scythefwd]
lue-jones Offline
Demigod

Registered: 02/17/12
Posts: 611
Loc: Virginia, USA.
City or County: Vinton
Originally Posted By: scythefwd
Well lue, lets take this line by line.

The General, while very much right on his assessment, appears to be mislabeling things or assigning attributes.

Specifically 5. Its not listed under one of the planks from marx's own list you put later.


Hi Scy,
While the retired Lt. General certainly does not need me to defend him, this is really an easy one to clear up. I believe the General is absolutely correct in his assessment that gun control has very much been a part of Marxist insurgency with numerous examples throughout history to testify to this affect.

Quote:
Indeed, the best testimony to the power of an armed populace is the vigor with which the Warsaw Pact dictatorships enforced gun control. When the Communists took over Bulgaria on September 9, 1944, they immediately confiscated every weapon in private possession.

In East Germany, private gun ownership was outlawed, although citizens were allowed to rent hunting guns for one-day periods.

Immediately after World War II, Hungary was governed by a coalition of democrats and Communists. Preparing the way for a total Communist takeover Laszlo Rajk, the Communist Minister of the Interior, ordered the dissolution of all pistol and hunting clubs, as well as of other organizations which might prove a threat to government power. Rajk claimed he acted "in order to more efficiently protect the democratic system of the state."


Quote:
Nowhere was gun control fiercer than in Rumania. The dictatorship of Nicolai Ceausescu used registration lists to confiscate all firearms in private hands. The government also registered (but did not confiscate) typewriters.

http://www.davekopel.com/2a/mags/crcommst.htm


Quote:
It should come as no surprise that the Communist Party USA is on board with President Obama’s plan to attack Americans’ right to keep and bear arms as a means to “end gun violence.” A cardinal feature of communist regimes, like all dictatorships, is the prohibition of private ownership of arms, creating a monopoly of force in the hands of the State.

In a January 18 article, People’s World, an official publication of the Communist Party USA (CPUSA), declared that “the ability to live free from the fear or threat of gun violence is a fundamental democratic right — one that far supercedes any so-called personal gun rights allegedly contained in the Second Amendment.”


http://www.thenewamerican.com/usnews/politics/item/14320-communists-cheer-on-obama%E2%80%99s-gun-grab

Quote:
The most zealous gun rights supporters in America are those who had the misfortune to live under totalitarian regimes. One of those people is Manuel Martinez, who escaped Castro’s Cuba. In moving testimony given in Salem, Oregon, Martinez told Floyd Prozansky, who leads Oregon’s gun grabbing movement, “you don’t know what freedom is.”

Speaking in broken, impassioned English, Martinez recalled that the Castro government did what every other totalitarian government does as its first act of power: the government confiscated citizens’ weapons. Once disarmed, it was easy for Castro’s minions to arrest and execute citizens. Sounding much like the Founders themselves, Martinez said that individuals have the right to arm themselves in order to protect themselves from those who wish to take away their God-given freedoms. For this reason, the right to bear arms is itself a God given right:

My name is Manuel Martinez, born in Cuba, American citizen for more than 40 years. I oppose any manipulation, any regulation, elimination, or disturb (sic) of the Second Amendment of the Constitution of the United States. In 1959, (garbled) individuals, malicious individuals, masquerading as Democrats, revolutionaries, establish a regime, a dictatorial regime in my nation, called Communism, socialism, Stalinism, Marxism, and what the name “-ism” you want to call it. The reason was done to take away the guns from the people — the right of the people to wear guns. And that is a God-given right. It is not given by anybody. It is not given by any government. It is the same thing as freedom which is a God-given right and no one, absolutely no one, has the authority to take it away.


http://mrconservative.com/2013/04/10851-survivor-of-communism-warns-americans-on-gun-control/

Quote:
* In 1929, the Soviet Union established gun control. From 1929 to 1953, about 20 million dissidents, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated. This doesn't include the 30 million 'Uncle Joe' starved to death in the Ukraine.

http://rense.com/general81/ligun.htm

Quote:
“China established gun control in 1935. From 1948 to 1952, 20 million political dissidents, unable to defend themselves, were exterminated by their own government.

https://maoistrebelnews.wordpress.com/2011/10/07/pro-gun-activists-lie-about-chinese-gun-ownership/

I've met many communist sympathizers over the years who have idealistic notions that if they could just enact the right form of communism their socialist eutopia could finally come to fruition. Many of these people I have encountered first hand learned about communism from sociology professors who sugar coat communism while almost always leaving out the real world application of Marxism which has literally left millions dead, imprisoned in their wake. A communist under any other name, is still a communist.

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#858959 - 02/17/15 05:42 PM Re: Communism in the United States Today [Re: lue-jones]
scythefwd Offline
Pea Shooter

Registered: 02/19/11
Posts: 2430
Loc: KS
City or County: Lenexa
I'll agree its been a tool used by every marxist regime as well. Marxism isnt pure communism.. That is where I'm drawing the distinction. Disarming the populace is par for the course for any oppressive regime. I stand by that there has been no pure communist state, and at best it has been limited to small communes of hippies and monks out in fields and mountains.

And I agree, the Gen needs no defending. His points are on, nothing needing defending. Notice how he says a marxist/communist.. he uses them interchangeably, and I dont believe they are. What he describes is very much pure marxist tho...

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#858999 - 02/17/15 06:37 PM Re: Communism in the United States Today [Re: lue-jones]
lue-jones Offline
Demigod

Registered: 02/17/12
Posts: 611
Loc: Virginia, USA.
City or County: Vinton
As I have previously laid out above, the term Marxism as defined by Google is, "the political and economic theories of Karl Marx and Friedrich Engels, later developed by their followers to form the basis for the theory and practice of communism."

Obviously, Marxism drawing its name sake from Communism co-founder Karl Marx.

I have always found it to be academically semantic to argue the differentiation between these and other like terms when they will be forever linked to one another despite the best efforts of communist sympathizers to draw differentiations between them. And believe me, there is no shortage of those who wish to separate terms which relate to meaning in language or logic.

So I am unsure how the retired Lt. General has mislabeled gun control as a part of Marxist insurgency when numerous examples exist throughout history to attest otherwise. Unless we're attempting to re-write history itself, in which case there is a mountain of widely accepted historical fact that says otherwise.

When we look at the 10 planks of communism, it does not take long to understand that in order to practice these tennants in area's of the world where they were not previously governed that one will either have to be a truly amazing speaker capable of convincing people to do just about anything, including giving up their private ownership of land, or take such things by force.

Obviously one of the 10 planks of communism as laid out in 'The Communist Manifesto' is the abolition of private land ownership.

Convincing people to adhere to a set of principles inherently foreign to them can be as easy or difficult as those who are forced to abide these rules make it. Should one decide they are not willing to go along with such doctrines as communism, it is not hard to understand that disarming the populace makes the communist plight much easier to accomplish than allowing them to have firearms, a traditional means of self-defense, and running into opposition which could put a wrench in your spokes.

And as most of us are aware with a cursory understanding of the history of communism, opposition is often met with imprisonment and or death. There is a great video on youtube where a former citizen under communist rule stops and discusses with American communist sympathizers handing out communist propaganda pamplets that they would not be able to dissiminate any kind of political oppositional information in his former communist nation.

Highlighting one of many problems with communism and the dangers that exist within.

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#859027 - 02/17/15 07:07 PM Re: Communism in the United States Today [Re: lue-jones]
scythefwd Offline
Pea Shooter

Registered: 02/19/11
Posts: 2430
Loc: KS
City or County: Lenexa
Communism, the ideology predates Karl Marx..., unless we want to think that communism came about as recently as the 1900's. Been around a LOT longer than that..

The reason people separate terms.. is because words have specific meanings.

You are confusing correlation to causation. Yes, there has been gun control in every marxist government.. but is that because it was a marxist government or because the it was an oppressive government exerting control. Is Marxism the cause, or just happen to coincide with the oppressive government? I believe that its not tenant of communism, but its a requirement to implement it because communism cannot work without it being forced upon the populace. Much in the same way as the fundimentals of reloading.. reshape brass, prime, fill with powder, put in a bullet and crimp it in. Have to have the tools to do that.. In this case, the gun control is the tool.. and its a tool for facism, marxism, total dictatorships, etc. Actually, its a tool that is used in every government style for keeping the masses in check. Its also antithetical to a free and democratic nation, where its lack is to keep the government in check. I find it hard to argue that it is a tenant of ONE type of governmental system (as you use it, specifically marxism) when it is so thoroughly used as a tool by almost all forms of oppressive governments in order to enforce their will. Its a simple might makes right, which I dont think can be attributed to any single ideal or narrowed down to any single governmental system to claim it as a tenant of one... That is unless you want to claim it a tenant of all but democratic systems. At which point we'll just have to disagree.. I see it as a tool, you see it as a fundamental part and founding basis for the systems.

The communist manifesto, was written by folks trying to overthrow a government.. Thats a strategic document on how to take control..


Edited by scythefwd (02/17/15 07:10 PM)

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#859048 - 02/17/15 07:37 PM Re: Communism in the United States Today [Re: scythefwd]
lue-jones Offline
Demigod

Registered: 02/17/12
Posts: 611
Loc: Virginia, USA.
City or County: Vinton
Originally Posted By: scythefwd
Yes, there has been gun control in every marxist government..


I'm glad we laid that disagreement to rest and you've had a public change in opinion. It was only a few short days ago that you wanted to argue this fact at the expense of an untold number of lives who would attest otherwise. I would recommend doing more research on the topic in the future in order to be better prepared to have an honest discussion on the topic instead of one which centers around an unwillingness to dilligently address the issue at hand.

At this very moment gun control is a hot topic around firearm boards just like this one. Unfortunately, hearing otherwise intelligent Americans attempt to make this issue a subject of tinfoil debate is all too common when in truth it is among the most serious topics facing our nation today.

Unfortunately though, the United States as we once knew it is in serious danger of turning into something else completely unless every American recognizes the problems within and heads to the voting booth to do something about it. Our Constitution and thus the American way of life is well underway of being attacked, circumvented and put into a permanent state of stasis unless every American understands the issue at hand and come together to do something about it.

We should all be Americans, not divided amongst ourselves to the point nothing can be accomplished. Together we stand, divided we fall.

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#859062 - 02/17/15 07:57 PM Re: Communism in the United States Today [Re: lue-jones]
Mark S Offline
Mark S

Registered: 04/29/10
Posts: 4038
Loc: Rappahannock County, VA
City or County: Front Royal
I was going to stay out of this but...

Marx was an economist not a dictator.

Communism is community ownership of the means of production. Communism as in communal living existed before Marx, but he and Engels are the modern theorist practitioners based on their critique of capitalism where owners make money off of the labors of the workers by owning the means of production.

When you say Marxist Communist or marxism communism the terms in current usage are relatively interchageable. What is not is Marxist Leninism which was a creation of Stalin and was neither.

Disarmament is a practice of any totalitarian regime to protect itself from the masses. FYI, most countries in Europe do not have a tradition of gun or even weapon ownership and most arms were kept away from what we might even consider a local militia, usually on the 'Lords grounds' and only accessed when he called them out. The rest of the time he had his own cadre of paid soldiers to protect him and that cadre was generally driven by his wealth, which was driven by the amount of land and peasants he had working for him.

We have very few true Communists here in the US, mainly college students, a few professors and some old hippies as well as some true believers. We do have a growing number of Socialists that mainly tie to the Democratic Party for electoral purposes and the growth public employee unions.

There are plenty of manifestos out there all meant to overthrow something or right some supposed wrong.

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#859064 - 02/17/15 07:59 PM Re: Communism in the United States Today [Re: lue-jones]
scythefwd Offline
Pea Shooter

Registered: 02/19/11
Posts: 2430
Loc: KS
City or County: Lenexa
Lue, you appear to have misinterpreted my comment if you think my opinion has changed.

I said it has happened in every marxist government. I never denied that.. I said it wasn't a tenant of communism, which I also stand by.

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#859157 - 02/17/15 11:03 PM Re: Communism in the United States Today [Re: lue-jones]
toughtom12 Offline
Gun fool

Registered: 11/15/11
Posts: 942
Loc: Centreville/Manassas
City or County: Manassas
Communism? What year is it? I think lue-jones fell into the Hot Tub Time Machine... LOL! WOLVERINES!!!!!!!

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#859697 - 02/19/15 05:16 AM Re: Communism in the United States Today [Re: lue-jones]
Paratus Offline
Addicted

Registered: 05/17/09
Posts: 573
Loc: Virginia
City or County: Appomattox
Place the Ten Planks of Communism and the Bill of Rights side by side and see which of the two are being more closely followed in this country today.

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#859971 - 02/19/15 04:27 PM Re: Communism in the United States Today [Re: lue-jones]
P3Bill Offline
VETERAN PEASHOOTER

Registered: 12/21/10
Posts: 1780
Loc: Wilderness
City or County: Orange County
Communism is one thing but the really scary thing is the progressive left's use of Saul Alinsky's "RULES FOR RADICALS."

Both Obama and Hillary are students of Alinsky. Google up some background and edumacate youself.
_________________________
"Guns are a lot like parachutes ~ If you need one and don't have one, you'll probably never need one again"

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#860165 - 02/19/15 11:20 PM Re: Communism in the United States Today [Re: lue-jones]
lue-jones Offline
Demigod

Registered: 02/17/12
Posts: 611
Loc: Virginia, USA.
City or County: Vinton
Hi P3,
Thanks for stopping in sir, always good to hear from Americans who are paying attention to the events unfolding in our country.

Below is some information I thought to share about Alinsky, his followers and a very recent example of community organizing which has taken place in the United States that is likely still fresh on many Americans minds.

Quote:
Many people say that he dedicated Rules for Radicals to Lucifer, the Prince of Darkness. That is not technically true. Rather, he spoke fondly of him on the page preceding the Table of Contents. There he wrote, “Lest we forget at least an over-the-shoulder acknowledgment to the very first radical from all our legends, mythology, and history (and who is to know where mythology leaves off and history begins — or which is which), the first radical known to man who rebelled against the establishment and did it so effectively that he at least won his own kingdom — Lucifer.”


http://thefederalist.com/2014/09/22/media-in-2014-who-is-saul-alinsky-and-why-should-we-care/

Quote:
Let’s say that if there is an afterlife, and I have anything to say about it, I will unreservedly choose to go to hell.

PLAYBOY: Why?

ALINSKY: Hell would be heaven for me. All my life I’ve been with the have-nots. Over here, if you’re a have-not, you’re short of dough. If you’re a have-not in hell, you’re short of virtue. Once I get into hell, I’ll start organizing the have-nots over there.

PLAYBOY: Why them?

ALINSKY: They’re my kind of people.“


Quote:
Saul Alinsky (1909-1972), the son of Russian Jewish immigrants, wrote the book on community organizing and, as such, is the guru of all “community organizers” — a deceptively innocuous term for what Marxists used to call “agitprop” or agitators-propagandists. Alinsky was not the first to realize that successful Marxist revolutions depend on organizational prowess, but he was the first to write a “how to” organizational manual for aspiring Marxist revolutionaries in the United States — the now famous Rules for Radicals: A Pragmatic Primer for Realistic Radicals (1971).


Quote:
Alinsky biographer Sanford Horwitt claims that not only did Obama follow Alinsky’s teachings as a Chicago-based community organizer, Obama’s 2008 presidential campaign was influenced by those teachings. Alinsky’s rules are also wielded by Internet trolls.


Quote:
Alinsky’s 13 Rules for the Left:

1. Power is not only what you have but what the enemy thinks you have.

2. Never go outside the experience of your people.

3. Whenever possible, go outside of the experience of the enemy.

4. Make the enemy live up to their own book of rules.

5. Ridicule is man’s most potent weapon.

6. A good tactic is one that your people enjoy.

7. A tactic that drags on too long becomes a drag.

8. Keep the pressure on with different tactics and actions, and utilize all events of the period for your purpose.

9. The threat is usually more terrifying than the thing itself.

10. The major premise for tactics is the development of operations that will maintain a constant pressure upon the opposition.

11. If you push a negative hard and deep enough, it will break through into its counterside.

12. The price of a successful attack is a constructive alternative.

13. Pick the target, freeze it, personalize it, and polarize it.


http://www.dcclothesline.com/2014/09/10/...itical-warfare/


How many of you remember the rioting just a few short months ago all over the country? In particular, Ferguson, Missouri? For quite some time, "community organizers" in the area worked the neighborhoods, churches and other community centers to stir up discontent and organize protests, some violent, which made headlines across the world.

Little attention seemed to be given to the fact support from the highest offices in Washington, D.C. were given to these same community organizers. Take the time to think about the 13 rules for the left above and how they apply to the Michael Brown case and the events that followed.

Ferguson Protests in more than 170 cities across the U.S.

Obama met with AG Holder about Ferguson

Justice Department Prods Ferguson Police to Improve

Eric Holder to Ferguson Leakers: Shut Up

Obama met with Ferguson activists, concerned they stay the course

Ferguson Activist Hold Training Session

New Black Panther Party Wants to Arm Every Black Male

NAACP Urges Blacks To Take Up Arms

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#860223 - 02/20/15 07:23 AM Re: Communism in the United States Today [Re: P3Bill]
Paratus Offline
Addicted

Registered: 05/17/09
Posts: 573
Loc: Virginia
City or County: Appomattox
I have "Rules for Radicals" at home. Interesting read. Explains a lot. I think perhaps we should use that book and fire those techniques back at the left.

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#860237 - 02/20/15 07:48 AM Re: Communism in the United States Today [Re: Paratus]
Mark S Offline
Mark S

Registered: 04/29/10
Posts: 4038
Loc: Rappahannock County, VA
City or County: Front Royal
Originally Posted By: Paratus
I have "Rules for Radicals" at home. Interesting read. Explains a lot. I think perhaps we should use that book and fire those techniques back at the left.


We don't because we're generally people principal and integrity who believe that we can win an argument on merits and are willing to change our opinions based on facts and logic. None of those things matter(ed) to Alinsky or Democrats (yes, that is a cheap shot on Dems, it felt good, see Rules 5, 6 11, 13).

The bigger issue is finding the medium through which to transmit the message given the MSM are all on the other side of the argument and you want widespread transmittance. For instance, FBI stats show you are more likely to be shot by police if you are white than black. But, people, mostly black, marching and chanting 'black lives matter' is better press for those who want to push the racist America theme, because "America isn't as racist as xxx (name virtually every other country - not kidding go look at the stats)" doesn't sell papers.

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#860418 - 02/20/15 02:08 PM Re: Communism in the United States Today [Re: lue-jones]
SeaCoaster Offline
seacoaster

Registered: 01/14/13
Posts: 199
Loc: Va.
City or County: Oakton
Had the Honor of meeting this Author and see him speak....

*Quite long winded vids ---well worth it imho


A true LOVER OF liberty from NEW Zealand who Loves the USA and appreciates the WWII marines soldiers sailors and airmen that kept his homeland safe.

His book is well researched & documented....


Biggest Security Risk is upon Capital Hill
100 people in Congress and 20 in the Senate could not pass basic security clearance

THE ENEMIES WITHIN: Communists, Socialists and Progressives in the U.S. Congress

http://www.amazon.com/THE-ENEMIES-WITHIN-Communists-Progressives/dp/1490575170



Published on Aug 22, 2014
Presented by Spokane Tea Party Patriots and produced by Northwest Grassroots, Trevor Loudon brought the house down with the most passionate plea for patriots to stand up - and actually take a stand against our government and demand that we turn back to our ‘rule of law’ and be the Republic we were founded to be.

I won’t take your time covering what was said here - if you want to know you must listen. However, Mr. Loudon (who not once said ‘uh’ or paused to catch his thoughts, blasted his clear and concise message ripping our elected leaders from top to bottom. Certainly once a political neophyte hears this message they would question the likes of the establishment cronies within the eastern Washington GOP political system.

This was truly a night to remember.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gW4Lw9HXIC8






https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IGYHJ0wtavc

Biggest Security Risk is upon Capital Hill
100 people in Congress and 30 in the Senate could not pass basic security clearance




THE ENEMIES WITHIN - URGENT MESSAGE, PLEASE FORWARD

just listen @ 38.30 .... see if that does not raise your neck hairs up

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1nqlUgDXKp0

Trevor Loudon


http://www.trevorloudon.com/2013/09/vide...ub-august-20th/



Trevor Loudon's New Zeal Blog

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#860443 - 02/20/15 02:47 PM Re: Communism in the United States Today [Re: lue-jones]
lue-jones Offline
Demigod

Registered: 02/17/12
Posts: 611
Loc: Virginia, USA.
City or County: Vinton
Excellent post SeaCoaster, thanks for contributing. I highly recommend every red blooded American and lover of liberty take the time to listen to the New Zealander Trevor Loudon speak. Not long ago, I mentioned how Forest Gump was the story of my life, always seemingly treated like a fool. So imagine my surprise to see this thread bumped out of que with an off-topic response to another thread. Or various snarky comments made in threads (nice edit) around the board.

In my opinion, these "Americans" who would prefer to turn a blind eye to the problems in this country are the exact reason various forms of ideology and legislation are able to pass right under lady Libertys nose.

It is a shame a New Zealander is on top of things most Americans have no idea about or who simply refuse to look at the facts as laid out for them on a silver platter. When others do your research for you and you still refuse to drink from the cup of wisdom you become part of the problem instead of part of the solution.

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#860763 - 02/21/15 09:14 AM Re: Communism in the United States Today [Re: lue-jones]
Mizzle Offline
hasn't been banned yet.

Registered: 05/08/10
Posts: 2048
Loc: NOVA
City or County: Springfield, VA
Want to stop communism? Don't send your kids to their (public) schools.

Most people conform to their environments. Young children are around pro-communist and pro-socialist propaganda for the majority of the day. Kids that reject are punished or removed from the class. Children learn quickly they must conform to the prevailing ideology to accomplish what you (the parent) sent them to accomplish.
_________________________
Used Glocks are not worth $500.
If you built an AR, which you are now selling, list the BRAND NAME of each part, not the fact that said part is 'mil-spec'

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#861328 - 02/22/15 08:26 AM Re: Communism in the United States Today [Re: Mark S]
Paratus Offline
Addicted

Registered: 05/17/09
Posts: 573
Loc: Virginia
City or County: Appomattox
Originally Posted By: Mark S
Originally Posted By: Paratus
I have "Rules for Radicals" at home. Interesting read. Explains a lot. I think perhaps we should use that book and fire those techniques back at the left.


We don't because we're generally people principal and integrity who believe that we can win an argument on merits and are willing to change our opinions based on facts and logic. None of those things matter(ed) to Alinsky or Democrats (yes, that is a cheap shot on Dems, it felt good, see Rules 5, 6 11, 13).

The bigger issue is finding the medium through which to transmit the message given the MSM are all on the other side of the argument and you want widespread transmittance. For instance, FBI stats show you are more likely to be shot by police if you are white than black. But, people, mostly black, marching and chanting 'black lives matter' is better press for those who want to push the racist America theme, because "America isn't as racist as xxx (name virtually every other country - not kidding go look at the stats)" doesn't sell papers.



I agree with you in principal however, look at the results.

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#861341 - 02/22/15 09:10 AM Re: Communism in the United States Today [Re: Paratus]
Mark S Offline
Mark S

Registered: 04/29/10
Posts: 4038
Loc: Rappahannock County, VA
City or County: Front Royal
Concur...

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#862068 - 02/23/15 05:03 PM Re: Communism in the United States Today [Re: Mark S]
lue-jones Offline
Demigod

Registered: 02/17/12
Posts: 611
Loc: Virginia, USA.
City or County: Vinton
Below is a cursory glance and case history of the nation formerly known as Rhodesia. A nation which was once white minority ruled, but after declaring independence from the UK (doesnt that sound familiar?) was forced by the United Nations to hand over the rings to the black majority. Rhodesia no longer exists in its previous form, and is now known as something else.

Quote:
In 1965 Rhodesia, led by its leader Ian Smith, declared independence from United Kingdom. The country was run by a minority of approximately a quarter million whites, who had both the political and economic power. This illegal declaration of independence led to economic sanctions against the new country, first from the United Kingdom, later from the United Nations. 1972 saw the beginning of a seven year long guerilla war between black nationalists and the Rhodesian security forces.


Quote:
Why did Rhodesia experience guerilla warfare? Well, there were many factors behind the unrest. The black Africans lacked both economic and political influence, and there was also a wish for true democracy. In 1970 the mean income of blacks was 10 times lower than the corresponding white mean income. Another explanatory variable was the wave of Marxism that swept over the African continent. Knowledge of Marxist ideology and political and supply-wise support from the Soviet Union and China helped initiate the guerilla war. A third factor was a wish for power and influence by the two strong rebel leaders, Nkomo and Mugabe.


The Fall of Rhodesia

Quote:
In 1966 the United Nations Security Council passed mandatory economic sanctions against the Rhodesian regime, treated it to diplomatic isolation, and announced that the international community would endorse only a settlement that provided for majority rule.


Quote:
For years, black leaders had been calling for changes in the internal security apparatus, and the leaders of ZANU and ZAPU had frequently branded Rhodesia's security apparatus "despotic" and "fascist." As early as 1963, ZANU's policy platform declared: "ZANU shall repeal the Unlawful Organizations Act, the Law and Order Maintenance Act ... and all other repressive laws enacted by the white minority SettlerGovernments."


Transition To Majority Rule

Quote:
Lasting from the mid-1960’s to 1980, the bush war in Rhodesia saw this tiny land locked nation surrounded by communist backed insurgents operating from the adjacent nations of Mozambique, Zambia, and Botswana. Robert Mugabe’s ZANU was supported by Red China while Joshua Nkomo’s ZAPU was a primarily a Soviet sponsored insurgency.


The Selous Scouts: A uniquely Rhodesian answer to counter insurgency

Quote:
Thousands of Zimbabwe's white farmers must decide by midnight tonight whether to fight President Robert Mugabe's government and risk jail or to flee lands they have farmed for generations.


Quote:
But Mugabe, Zimbabwe's sole ruler since the former Rhodesia gained independence in 1980, says his land seizures are meant to correct the wrongs of British colonialism which left 70 percent of the country's best farmland in white hands.


Zimbabwe white farmers must fight or flee

Quote:
"We should be replanting these fields now, but I don't know who is going to benefit from the next harvest," he says, shaking his head. "I will probably do it anyway, but I do wonder whether it's worth it."

After an 11-year struggle in which their ranks have been murdered, beaten, jailed and bankrupted, the last of Zimbabwe's white farmers are finally facing defeat in their efforts to resist President Robert Mugabe's land-grab programme.


Quote:
"They will probably give me about 24 hours to get off my land, as they will say I have dragged things out through the appeal process already," sighed Mr Cloete, whose fields supply British American Tobacco, makers of Dunhill's and Benson and Hedges.

"To be honest, I don't really fancy the idea of moving to Harare, and the idea of giving up farming is heart-rending. If I was going to serve a couple of years in jail and then get the farm back, it might be worth it, but that's not how it is."
A former head of the Commercial Farmers' Union, Mr Cloete has spent tens of thousands of dollars in legal bills fighting the land reform programme, which put Zimbabwe on the path to economic ruin a decade ago when black squatters were first encouraged to "invade" white-owned farms.

Purportedly to redress the injustices of white colonial rule, its effect has been largely to create a new landlord class: the pick of white-owned land has gone to Zanu-PF cronies, leaving an agricultural sector that was once the pride of Africa in the hands of people with no experience of farming.

The end of an era for Zimbabwe's white farmers

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