http://www.wdbj7.com/news/local/mcauliffe-to-propose-gun-control-measures/30240540

Something all firearm owners should keep in mind is that the push for Universal/Expanded Background Checks has included an expanded record keeping and reporting clause which would report more detailed information on individuals with "major mental health problems" to the background check system. This clause alone is ripe for abuse and is little more than a backdoor push for more gun control in this country.

Even something like being prescribed insomnia or anti-anxiety medication could potentially lead to a loss of your rights to own firearms. The story of Virginia resident and veteran Brandon Raub is a glimpse of just how easily the government can get their foot in the door to legally bar you from owning a firearm. Violating your first, second and fourth amendment Constitutionally guaranteed rights.

Through a process of incrementalism , the further we let legislation like this creep into our collective governance, the narrower our freedoms become until eventually we're sitting in the same drivers seat as the United Kingdom or Australia. Stripped of a majority of our firearm rights and our hands tied much the same as they are now with Obamacare to do anything about it.



http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2...uish-after-vote



http://news.yahoo.com/obama-taking-action-gun-background-check-system-100127550--politics.html





http://www.storyleak.com/obama-executive-fiat-backdoor-gun-confiscation/#ixzz2pWPLWTeP

Something else to keep in mind about these Universal/Expanded Background Checks being pushed is the fact even if you're completely innocent of any crime or not subject to an involuntary committment to a mental health facility yourself your right to own a firearm legally could very well be in jeopardy if someone in your immediately family has been.



http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2...arms?cmpid=yhoo

Something very similar to what is discussed above, warrantless searches for firearms, is already a reality in places like Washington D.C. as well. Just a hop, skip and a jump from our own state.



http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013...regis/?page=all



http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/03/...ay-be-possible/





http://www.cnn.com/2013/03/12/politics/guns-senate/index.html?hpt=hp_t2



http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/...mer-since-1993/

Below are more examples of what can happen to your right to own firearms based off of medical records alone. And with the Universal/Expanded Background Checks including clauses which share personal health information to the back ground check system, its easy to see just how easily millions of Americans could be subject to backdoor gun control at the hands of this legislation.

Consider how many Americans in 2011 alone were prescribed anti-psychotic medication and how easily something so small as needing medication to treat insomnia can turn into a knock at your door from law enforcement looking to take your firearms away. With literally tens of millions of Americans being prescribed various medications which could be enough to trigger a revocation of firearms rights, we need to very careful about what we consider "common sense" legislation that could strip us of Constitutionally protected rights which were obtained through hardship and experience with tyranny.



http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/25/health...drugs.html?_r=0



http://www.mvass.com/2014/05/31/house-of...mendment-right/





http://www.shtfplan.com/headline-news/it...somnia_01022015

As we see above, the push to end the "Gun Show Loophole", which is now rebranded as Universal/Expanded Background checks includes provisions to expand the background check process to include mental health records which could potentially affect tens of millions of Americans who have been prescribed various medication and/or been committed to mental health screenings or facilities.

Something as small as a post on facebook, or seeking help for insomnia, anxiety etc. can be enough to alter your legal ability to own firearms for the rest of your life. And it can also affect your spouse and other immediate family members from owning these firearms as well. Any legislation that further narrows the scope of our rights is little more than a process of incrementalization which will eventually drastically alter the landscape of our country.

None of this is by accident, but rather purposeful design. And the further we let it go the further our rights and national identity as Americans becomes skewed. So many Americans are willing to give up freedom in the name of safety, you will get neither if bills such as Universal Background Checks are allowed to go forward.

Let not the blind morality of a self-serving few ,tarnish the dignity and valor of so many !Long Live America, land of my Fathers Father , land that I love and will die to protect.

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Not yet a VCDL member? Join VCDL at: http://www.vcdl.org/join
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Abbreviations used in VA-ALERT: http://www.vcdl.org/help/abbr.html
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UNIVERSAL BACKGROUND CHECKS - A LONG TERM THREAT TO OUR LIBERTY

Gun-grabbers are pushing hard to get what they call “Universal Background Check” (UBC) legislation passed at the state level. They have recently been successful in Washington State and Oregon.

Universal Background Checks (UBC) are where all gun sales, including private sales, must be run through a government background-check system.

While that seems innocent enough, it isn’t.

You will no longer be able to sell a gun at will to a relative, friend, or acquaintance in your living room, a parking lot, or anywhere else, except in a gun dealer’s business location during normal business hours, after you pay a fee and fill out paperwork. Oh, and a gun dealer can choose not to handle private sales at all!

In Washington State, under their new UBC law, a gun owner can’t loan someone a gun at a range without both persons going through a background check!

UBC legislation poses a very real threat to our right to keep and bear arms and, ultimately, to our liberty itself. Your ability to sell your guns will become cumbersome and more expensive. Worse, UBC laws will lead to gun registration schemes as a means of enforcement, home “compliance inspections” to ensure that those registration schemes have been followed, and, finally, confiscation (which has already occurred in other states).

The antis couch UBC laws as being "common sense” and as closing a “loophole used by criminals to get guns." Those who take that on face value and who don’t realize the full implications, including many gun owners, too often agree.

Of course criminals can easily get around any background check by simply stealing them or getting someone else to buy the gun for them (called a straw purchase).

Millions of dollars were poured into advertising in both Washington State and Oregon, by people like Michael Bloomberg and Bill Gates (Microsoft owner), to trick the population into supporting UBCs and, sadly, it worked.

(The antis in Washington State, lying as usual, bragged that the overwhelming majority of people in Washington wanted UBC laws. If that was so, why did they waste so many millions of dollars on a vast advertising campaign?)


GUN HATERS HAVE BEEN TRYING TO BRING UBC LAWS TO VIRGINIA FOR THE LAST THREE YEARS OR SO

The good news is:

1. While there have been many UBC bills introduced in the General Assembly, VCDL has been able to soundly defeat all of them so far.

2. SO FAR, no serious money from people like Michael Bloomberg has been used to buy television, radio, and newspaper ads in support of UBC bills in Virginia, as has happened in some other states.

3. Virginia does not have ballot initiatives like Washington State and some other states. Such initiatives allow an anti-gun media coupled with big money interests (Bloomberg, et al) to mislead the populace into overriding the state’s legislators and forcing passage of UBC laws.

The bad news is that Virginia is in the crosshairs and the attacks here will begin in earnest at some point and we need to prepare now if we are to prevail.


THE BEST TIME TO STOP A FIRE IS WHEN IT IS SMALL, NOT WAIT UNTIL YOUR HOUSE IS ENGULFED IN FLAMES

Right now, time is on our side. That is not so for some of our brethren in other states.

VCDL needs YOU to start educating all of your friends, family, co-workers, neighbors, and anybody else you interact with, be they gun owners or not. Do NOT let any comments about UBCs being acceptable stand unchallenged, including statements made in the media.

I am going to ask that our gun show coordinators pass out copies of the flyer, below, at all gun shows to make sure that gun owners, of all people, understand what is at stake.

Working together, NOW, to educate people, will allow us to stand strong and prevail on this issue.

To download the flyer, click here:

https://www.vcdl.org/sites/default/files/UBC_Flyer.pdf


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VA-ALERT is a project of the Virginia Citizens Defense League, Inc.
(VCDL). VCDL is an all-volunteer, non-partisan grassroots organization
dedicated to defending the human rights of all Virginians. The Right to
Keep and Bear Arms is a fundamental human right.

VCDL web page: http://www.vcdl.org
****************************************************************

I personally have no problem with universal background checks.IF implemented in a sane manner. I understand it will make things more difficult for one on one deals, but Honestly, how do any of us know for certain that the Voters card and or the Concealed Carry card we check are actually valid. And that some thing has not changed?


Not trying to stir up a firestorm, but maybe having to do everything through an FFL will in the long run be better for all.

Actually, there is no reason that the database is open source that anyone could check for any reason. It is all public info, I should have the same ability to access federal and state databases as anyone else even if there was a nominal fee for it. why should government only have access to the material?

Ignorance is the word most closely associated with the term Universal Background Checks (UBC's). Ignorance is what the Communist left is counting on while pushing for UBC's. When you ask the majority of Americans what UBC's mean, they will not know but will support it anyway based on ignorance.

They will naturally assume that background checks are a common sense approach to firearm ownership and will see no earthly reason to oppose it. Not knowing or understanding that there are already background checks in place and that UBC's are much broader in context than what is widely understood and known.

Further more, the majority who do have some kind of idea what UBC's are will simply say its a way of ending the "Gun Show Loophole." That is, assuring that private sales are vanquished and the necessity to register your firearms through any kind of "private" transaction would be ensured.

Again, they will see little reason to oppose this idea because the assumption is there is a connection between private firearm sales and crime. Some might even question why a need for UBC's exist if there isnt a connection between private transactions and crime/violence. Though any statistically significant data to support this notion is short on facts and long on hyperbole.

The extreme minority will be those informed enough about what UBC's are and actually mean. These individuals are few and far between, even in the firearms community where a majority will oppose UBC's for many reasons. But few will have an overall picture of exactly what UBC's encompass and the impact it could have on firearm ownership in the future.

That is what this thread was created for, an attempt to educate as many people as possible about what UBC's actually mean. There is nothing sane, common sense or anything else of the sort with UBC's. The California model of gun control is the model which they want to bring the entire United States under the control of. And we've already begun to see it creep into other area's of the country to include Washington, Colorado, New York etc. with what end in sight?

And that means many things, from abuse of the information contained in the health care system which would be used in the UBC model to warrantless confiscation of firearms. With a great deal many nuances in between.

We can see above that involuntary commitment to mental health facilities is a trigger for not only your loss of gun ownership rights but those in your immediate family as well. And the power to determine who is involuntarily commited rests on those barely fit to dress themselves in the morning much less determine who is in legitimate necessity of commitment. And that the ability to determine the necessity for commitment is ripe for abuse even among those with legitimate credentials.

We also see that the mental health aspect for determining loss of firearm ownership rights is also ripe for abuse, with those seeking extremely common prescriptions for everything from insomnia to anxiety being enough to trigger a loss of gun ownership rights.

With millions of Americans every year prescibed some kind of medication which could be associated with a mental health illness, under the UBC model which opens up private health care records a huge percentage of the population could come under the auspices of a loss of second amendment rights.

And as the NRA has pointed out, UBC's are also a back door means of creating a paper trail to every firearm legally owned in the United States and their exact whereabouts. As cited above, registration has lead to confiscation in the past and that is precisely the end game here. And I am willing to bet at some point in the future, based on the already bizarre direction our country is headed into that more gun control is all but a guarantee at some point in our future. Whether its a hundred years from now or sometime much sooner.

I'm not for UBCs, I'm against the government having a monopoly on information. Arrest records are public as are other records on which background checks are based.

Why shouldn't individuals have access to that data? I might want to run it before I sell you weapon, or I might want to check it before I let babysit my children, or hire you into my company to work with sensitive information.

Why would anyone be against giving citizens the capability to make those decisions?

Gov. McAuliffe calls for tougher gun restrictions after shooting

As former White House Chief of Staff Rahm Emanual is famous for stating, "you never want a serious crisis to go to waste." Capitalizing on tragedy, the Communists have wasted no time in a renewed and classless push to close "the gun show loophole" which is making headlines across the country in the wake of the shooting of two Virginia based journalists which occurred earlier this morning. As covered previously above, Universal/Expanded Background Checks is the newly minted phrase which is designed to phase out the old "gunshow loophole" rhetoric which was common for decades previously.

If we as Virginian's are not vigilant, we will lose our rights to conduct private transactions in this state much like they did in Washington state. The Communists will stop at nothing to target and eliminate the second amendment and it will not stop at barring private transactions. The push will only continue as the focus becomes narrower and narrower in scope before the entire second amendment is evaporated.

According to ABC news, the gun man acquired his hand gun from a Virginia gun store. Which would mean the shooter passed a background check and all of the rhetoric from the Governor and the mainstream media about the need for stricter gun control is little more than opportunistic propaganda from the Communists in order to get what they really want.

Which is a paper trail on every firearm bought and sold in the United States today and to narrow the scope of who can legally possess those firearms. Which as this thread has already documented, tens of millions of Americans could potentially stand to be stripped of their second amendment rights due to mental health concerns alone. When a facebook post, insomnia or anxiety medication can trigger a loss of firearm ownership rights and millions of Americans have been prescribed similar medications each year it is not hard to see exactly what the real goal is with these Universal/Expanded Background Checks. Its disarmament and confiscation. Its an assault on individual liberty and freedom with tyranny waiting in the wings.

Yes, a background check would have helped greatly. Not. He passed one as did Dylan Roof. These clowns just want to turn all of America in to Baltimore and Chicago style slums.

I was watching NBC news this morning and the father of the woman reporter who was killed was being interviewed and I was shocked and surprised when he said he was going to "FIGHT" for universal background checks and eliminate the gun show loophole. As previously reported above, the KILLER purchased the pistol from a gun shop and DID pass a background check. I am sure that some POS politician got to the father and prompted him to say that. So, a cold blooded murder turns into the "gun show loop hole" again when in fact, it had NOTHING to do with the mis represented "loop hole".
Also, the news is reporting that the KILLER is gay and black and was fired/persecuted over 2 years ago causing him to commit the murders.
AGAIN, excuses are made for bad behavior and the gay and race card are played. Very little is being said that he was a bad employee that was coached to do his job more effectively but just could not perform as expected.
Now that we have a black and gay killer who murdered "whites", where is the outrage, demonstrations, marching, riots, new laws, hearings, investigations, Obama statement, DOJ investigation, civil rights violations, etc.???????
This world has become very upside down!

Terry was DNC chair last time Hilderbeast ran. His taking points have always included universal record keeping/registration.

Maybe WE should endrun this dope of a politician. There have been no problems from the so-called loophole. We could propose what some other states do: you present a ccw card or equivlilent and no check needed for ffl or private sales. Check gets done every couple of years, shows you are good to go and record keeping is at a minimum. NO govt registration.

You just walk into any county office where you pay taxes, pay $5 and get your card on the spot. Hell, even a Walmart or a place that sells hunting licenses and prints them off could issue these. Just fill out a form, present I.D., shop or get an oil change and come back for your good guy paper.

Certainly the obama Nazis and their "just common sense" mantra would have a hard time arguing against it without admitting that they want total registration.

Great idea!

A white guy shoots black people in a church and we ban a flag. A Black guy shoots white people on live TV and we want to ban guns.

I give up!

They found a rainbow flag in the killers apartment and he had posed with it in pictures. By the Libatards definition, it must be banned and all traces of it must be destroyed.

Dad of the girl killed on TV is a McAuliffe shill


Parker, 62, is not a political novice. He is a former member of the Henry County Board of Supervisors and a failed Democratic candidate for the state legislature. He said Friday he would stand up to Virginia's legislators to demand change and issued a challenge to President Barack Obama to make a renewed push for gun control.
Yet it was unclear what measures would have prevented Vester Flanagan from buying the gun he used to kill reporter Alison Parker and cameraman Adam Ward as they conducted a live interview Wednesday morning. With no apparent criminal record or other disqualifying incidents in his past, Flanagan passed a background check to buy his weapon.
He wants to close loopholes for buying guns at gun shows. He also doesn't see why civilians need assault weapons: "Who the hell needs a machine gun to go hunt?"

If the dilwad took the time to read the DGIF hunting laws, he would read that you may not hunt with a machine gun in VA.
But why let the facts upset your little panywaist whining session?

AND a hypocrite!!!! Can't have it both ways Skippy.


Parker, perhaps in a sign of Southern pragmatism, said he was thinking about getting a gun himself now that he was in the public eye and taking on such a controversial issue.

"I don't own a gun. We don't have a gun in our family. I'm probably going to have to get one," he said.

I think its important to keep as many eyes on this thread and educated about the facts surrounding Universal Background Checks as possible. The more Virginians who understand what is being proposed the better because I am not quite sure how many people understand just how much the implementation of UBC's can change firearm culture in this state should we fall asleep at the wheel.

Behind every politician is an army of lobbiest who have contributed money to campaigns in exchange for bargaining power to get things accomplished which are beneficial to the lobbiests demands. Where lobbying stops and bribery begins seems to be a fine line, but as we've seen countless times in this country special interest groups invest in politicians in order to get things done.



If we take a look at the hand McAuliffe has already played we can get a good idea of what may be pushed for in the future. Below is an article that ran in December 2014 which outlines some of McAuliffes stated goals.



http://www.wdbj7.com/news/local/mcauliffe-to-propose-gun-control-measures/30240540

For those interested in learning more, please see the threads below:

January 2015: McAuliffes Gun Control Measures Fail in Senate Committee

Terry McAuliffe: We Need Universal Background Checks

Slain Virgina Reporters Father Vows to Fight for Gun Control

Virginia Republicans Upset with McAuliffes Call for Tighter Gun Control Measures

On-Air Killer Wanted Race War

Actors Andy and Alison Parker

Well that's pretty much the stock & trade of these folks - they never let facts cloud up their thinking. That would be my question to him & Duh-Bama.....exactly how do you propose to change the laws to prevent this type of person from buying a gun?

Her dad might also ask himself if the guy who video taped Flangan being removed from the workplace might have been the target & his daughter was simply in the wrong place at the wrong time. I can see how it might be annoying to have some dillweed making a tape of being fired (not that it's a justification).

Lets not forget the push to include Americans on social security among those whom are targeted for inclusion in potential background check refusals. When you start to put a list together of Americans whom may lose their right to own firearms you have to ask yourself where does it end?



Obama pushes to include Social Security Beneficiaries from owning guns

He should have called the Firearms Act for Responsible Transfer or...FART...I hope I don't get a 'time out' for that one.

What these fools don't seem to get.
Vester signed and passed the 4473 background check as did Cho, the Navy yard shooter and Islamic terrorist Hasan..

What they really want is to strip folks of their rights without due process, because Mrs Kravis says she's scared of you... or your Physician thinks you might be depressed etc...

Hope to see all of the VAGT posters at Lobby Day 2016.

And. let's get rid Kaine next time around too.

We shouldn't forget the "Blue ribbon panel" we had to pay for to get to a predetermined conclusion about the VT shooting. Kaine is all about lining his buddies pockets.
How convenient that "Gun free zone" never seems to be part of the equation in libtard land when mass shootings occur.

With the recent community college shooting, it was not long before calls for gun control were politicized in the media and in particular we are hearing more rhetoric for a Universal Back Ground Check (UBC) system to be put in place. I will not be surprised to see the mainstream media pick up steam on UBC's in the future in an effort to lead the charge on the issue. Media campaigns on issues such as gay marriage, the confederate flag etc. seem to convince many that there is public and social support for such issues and it would not surprise me to one day wake up to an America where nuances of UBC's are a reality for a majority of Americans.









Obama Change Vow Hits Reality on Guns

Angered Obama Talks Gun Control

If we want to make sure McAwful doesn't get elected to Senate, a'la Warner and Kaine, then the Republicans need to choose a candidate that isn't a right-winger wackjob. If they nominate someone like Messrs. Cuccinelli or Fimian again, then they will lose again. If, on the other hand, they nominate someone like Bolling or Sarvis, then they are very likely to win.

Therefore, my Republican brothers and sisters, please, get yourselves to the Primary Elections where those candidates get selected, and make your vote count. Since Virginia is an open-Primary state, I will also be voting in said Primaries.

I hope to see you both at Lobby Day and at the voting booth.

- T

The universal registration to limit crime is a retarded argument appealing to only shallow thinkers. Neither the pos potus nor the carbetbagging idiot in the governor's mansion will follow the Constitution when it comes to deporting criminal aliens with no U.S. rights, but they wet their pants at the idea of taking legal God loving citizens and perverrting the law to make us instant criminals. Make no mistake, all they want is UNIVERSAL REGISTRATION.

Time to ignore obamaz as he does the Constitution and organize a recall of Terry the terrible. Dump him in the dust with other failed pols. If the RNC would have spent some money in the last 2 elections we would be free of this jerk and Warner.

Write your newspaper, become a person the local TV wants to talk with for some free local news bites. The Dems do it well, we need to start.

Don't wait until we get californicated

What Could Obama Do?

Obama Considers Executive Action

Expanding Background Checks

4 Reasons for Universal Background Checks

Universal Background Checks-What does it mean?

It is not a coincidence this thread was started well before the latest push by the Communists in passing Universal Background Check (UBC) laws. The writing is and has been on the wall for sometime now. As far back as the '90s rhetoric was high on closing the then labeled "gunshow loophole" and it has only picked up since then with the rebranding of the loophole into expanded and UBC agenda's.

Virginia governor tightens gun control laws

McAwfuls Executive Order on Private Sales of Firearms

Gov McClintons Executive Order

The commies are on the move people, whether this latest push is successful or not I suspect this is the future a majority of Americans will come to know as reality before its all said and done. When you have this many Communists pushing for the same issue for decades its reasonable to assume they will not stop even when their current goal is realized.

Once they are able to safely say they have a good idea of where nearly every firearm in the country is and they've successfully limited who can purchase firearms the next phase will be a United Kingdom or Australia like direction. Perhaps even grander in scheme? Its tough to say what the future brings, but we can see what is being proposed now and look down the road at potential repurcussions from the current fallout.

Background checks are not the problem, just the beginning process of taking away our rights as a citizen of these United States of America. Look a ObamaCare - are you happy with that? They are also messing with Social Security, something I have been forced to pay into for 50 years. What happens when those modest background fees go to $150 - $200 or just gets all together cost prohibitive? The FBI can't keep up with their work load now so we know they will have to increase manpower which takes more money.

Don't just get on these boards and talk about it, GET OUT AND VOTE ON TUESDAY (11/3/15)!!!!!! It will take all of us if we want to continue living in a free society!

Can't get to the polls on Tuesday, go today, tomorrow or Saturday. I will be out of town next week so I went to the Prince William County Election office yesterday to cast my vote; it took all of 10 minutes. Vote or shutup!

Most of the "remedies" proffered by the verminous left are presented as "common sense", "modest" or similar. These adjectives are designed to lull the sheep into believing that the benevolent statists would NEVER think about pooping on your civil rights but are merely trying to "protect the children
Read the other day that Baltimore, a city within a state with very oppressive gun laws, has had about 800 shootings so far this year. Maryland has many "modest" and "common sense" gun laws designed to protect us. (time for peals of laughter). We see how well this is working. Those here who have stated that this is about control, not safety, are correct.
We need more legislators who reject leftist thought and ideals. The Democrat Party is the most dangerous group in the world that our country faces. We are not only morally justified to not only ignore laws that trample on our freedoms, we are, indeed, obligated to do this. This can also be accomplished through the jury nullification process should we be called to jury duty regarding a gun law violation. The Maryland laws against face to face transactions etc. were routinely violated. ( I believe I posted something in this thread previously regarding this but apparently I am mistaken.) All of this said, I am getting a little ahead of the issue. anyhow, emarc is correct. Vote 11-3. We owe it to our children.

Obama Plan Includes Closing the 'Gunshow Loophole'

Obama and Lynch Outline Gun Control Plan

President Obama's Executive Action on gun control mirrors the details of 'Universal Background Checks' (UBC) and is little more than taking the backdoor to implement the UBC model. As this thread has laid out, the opening up of medical records to be included in the background check process is a major part of the UBC model and its ultimate goal is to narrow the scope of how many Americans are able to purchase firearms legally.

The PO(TU)S IN D.C. is a lying socialist tool. He always wanted universal registration, now he will force his hand.
The American people are too stupid to know that the Executive branch enforces laws and does not write laws.
Here is a cut and paste from the white house. If you trade 2 Guns a year you are now a dealer. Write your Congressmen and hold on, this is going to be a damn mess.


A person can be engaged in the business of dealing in firearms regardless of the location in which firearm transactions are conducted. For example, a person can be engaged in the business of dealing in firearms even if the person only conducts firearm transactions at gun shows or through the Internet. Those engaged in the business of dealing in firearms who utilize the Internet or other technologies must obtain a license, just as a dealer whose business is run out of a traditional brick-and-mortar store.
Quantity and frequency of sales are relevant indicators. There is no specific threshold number of firearms purchased or sold that triggers the licensure requirement. But it is important to note that even a few transactions, when combined with other evidence, can be sufficient to establish that a person is “engaged in the business.” For example, courts have upheld convictions for dealing without a license when as few as two firearms were sold or when only one or two transactions took place, when other factors also were present.
There are criminal penalties for failing to comply with these requirements. A person who willfully engages in the business of dealing in firearms without the required license is subject to criminal prosecution and can be sentenced up to five years in prison and fined up to $250,000. Dealers are also subject to penalties for failing to conduct background checks before completing a sale.

Fearmonger much? I'm Jewish, so I have more of a historical foundation for fearing gun registration than most (Holocaust, in case your history is weak). BUT, that's not what this legislation is about. And insomnia is not a major mental health issue. If you all try to stay away from reductio ad absurdum, we (gun owners and enthusiasts) will sound less crazy.

When I buy a gun, I go through a background check, and I'm glad it happens, and a little surprised it only takes a few minutes. How thorough can it be in that short time?

Hypothetically speaking, if when you wanted to sell your guns to someone else, it had to be done through an FFL with a brief background check, would that really be such a huge price to pay for increased safety? Think about it - the higher the threshold for getting guns, the LESS CHANCE YOU'LL BE SHOT by some wacko.

No one is taking your guns, asking you to register your guns (unless you're a dealer), or telling you that you can't buy more.

Take a deep breath.

str870 is not thinking ahead and believes the new EO is about our safety. He also believes touching base with the feds for firearms transactions is not in anyway leading to registration or record keeping. He also believes the wackos will be thwarted by laws. In the Holocaust we should have required them to fill out paperwork before dropping the liberator pistols.
I understand the angst over this issue but how a thinking individual can argue the EO's and this pres is interested in anything other than the gubmint dynamics that contributed to the holocaust is beyond my ability to understand.
T

twidpa, not all the wackos will be thwarted by laws, obviously. Tighter procurement thresholds, and looser restrictions on where we can carry should go hand in hand. Fewer people should be able to get guns, but those of us who can legally and responsibly have guns should be able to have them more of the time, in more places (schools, at least colleges, for example).

And you're right, that the legislators mostly want support from their constituents. But that doesn't mean that the measures won't do some good. Conversely, the "from my cold, dead hands" crowd also just want support from their constituents. It's not about safety there either, on the other side of the coin.

Is it pure coincidence that all the countries that have higher thresholds for getting guns, and lower limits on how many and what guns you can own, have SIGNIFICANTLY lower gun violence incidence? Anyone here understand statistics? I know, I know, math and science aren't God's ways, but...

I guess they like the broad brush theory with federal power to legislate when in actuality it should be the State that does so. The last several times I bought a firearm at a gun show from a licensed dealer I had to submit to a background check.

Now I know that most of us here already know this, but for the love of God someone please go smack the ever living poop out of the staff in the WH and show them the Constitution.

Countries have tight gun control like France right? As long as the measures do some good? This "good" will be only statistical right? No way to measure how many wackos will be thwarted by their inability to get a shotgun at a gunshow parking lot before they attack a gun free zone.
I am not in the "fewer people should have guns" crowd. Statistically, if there are more good people than wackos, arming everyone would work itself out.
You are saying there should be a class of folks who can have guns. I assume you are in that class? What about me? Am I and my son in that class? Are the folks who want to control access to guns (by your words this is you) in that class? The "from my cold, dead hands" would not be in your class? It seems you and the gun control folks want to be in the gun control/ ownership class while the folks who want to preserve the right to own firearms are not invited in this gun ownership class. The argument that only special folks who pass the gubmint test can own firearms does not make sense.
T
part of "the people"

So you've not read this thread I take it? Because we've already seen firearm confiscation as a result of insomnia related treatment. Do you know what the term precedent means? If they're willing to confiscate firearms over insomnia related issues, where does the slippery slope end? Because we have seen a long list of second amendment infringements, one after another, and this latest executive action justs adds to the list. And it won't stop there, just like it didnt stop with the 1989 assault weapons ban or the 1994 ban either.

Shall not be infringed has been followed by endless infringement. Maybe you should read up on the Constitution and how this exact same kind of tyranny specifically lead to the exact freedoms our Constitutional rights grant all Americans? We have a system of checks and balances in this country for a reason and what you're advocating is the actions of one man who has excluded the other branches of government from the decision making process.

Mental health is a key point of the Universal Background Check model and with precedent already established on what these Communists consider reason to add to the armed prohibitive lists we should all be absolutely concerned on the direction not only gun control in the United States is taking but other social and cultural issues as well.



It has been said that those willing to sacrifice freedom for safety will get neither and lose both. You're attempting to confuse private sales with crime. Criminality equals crime, not private firearm sales. We have an administration that has looked to capitalize on the murder of Americans by the very same radical Muslim extremists they are importing into this country by implementing more gun-control which is specifically aimed at disarming more Americans.

Not even getting into the Constitutionality of the subject we're talking about pure insanity. The solution to violence against Americans is to further disarm those very same Americans? I would laugh if it wasnt for the fact its an absolutely serious topic. One which I do not feel you're particularly fit to discuss considering the message you're espousing. You've clearly not thought your response through.

Nice post and one that strikes at the heart of this latest executive order. By attempting to influence how firearm transactions are conducted on a national basis we're getting into the debate over states rights. Just like the Supreme Courts ruling on gay marriage, the implementation of Obamacare, immigration etc. We fought a Civil War over the issues of states rights versus federal over reach and its my opinion these issues won't stop here. We have already seen numerous secessionists movements pick up momentum in this country due to an out of control government and with precedent already set on how that has played out in the past we're as divided of a nation as we've ever been.

US Signs UN Arms Treaty

UN Arms Treaty: National Gun Registration

NRA: Universal Background Checks A Step Towards Registration

Success of Universal Background Checks Depends on Registration

The 2nd Amendment Constitutional argument is both tired (200+ years old) and wrong. Laws are interpreted, always. Always have been. Some judges are wrong, some are right. With 330 million people in the country, there is going to be a fair amount of flexibility and subjectivity. If insomnia results in your gun being taken, you appeal.

I will say this: lue-jones, the moment you bring the word "Muslim" into the conversation, you immediately discount the radicals and murderers who are not, and force a larger rift between people who are in actuality, on the same side. Look at the demographics of shootings, and mass shootings specifically. Individual murders are pretty well scattered, though poverty and crime are well correlated. Mass murders in the US are seldom perpetrated by Muslims, blacks, women, or [generally anyone other than white men].

I'm ducking out, so you can address any "str870s doesn't know jack" statements to each other. 1 vs. the world is silly in an argument, for no other reason than I don't have time. You have all the fodder you need or want for all the "Ha-RUMPH" action you want.

Enjoy!

[quote=str870s]The 2nd Amendment Constitutional argument is both tired (200+ years old) and wrong.
THERE YOU HAVE IT. We should make this person fill out a background check to post here.....

T

I believe str870s is a troll disguised as a gun owner, and as the saying goes "Don't feed the troll".

str870s - i will give your stats have some bases. I dont agree but they have some logic. If you take the tools used by evil away another tool will be used.
While those places you mention do not have as much firearm related crimes they do have violent crime still. The US has large numbers of homicides with knives, feet and hands, clubs and other assorted tools.

So all those places did was change to tool for violent criminals and disarmed civilians from the tools they can use to protect them selves. it didn't stop violent crime.

Keep in mind the larges genocide of my time happened with clubs, knives and machetes in rowanda. 800,000 people hacked up and bludgeoned.

my point is violent and evil people dont need a specific tool to do evil. But good people should have the right tools to protect them selves from others and tyranny as the founders of this great country wrote out in the same document that give us all the right to debate and converse about this.

By stating that the constitution needs to be reinterpreted then you are stating that the idea of freedom, life and liberty needs to be reinterpreted.
and on that point I strongly disagree.

Warren V. D.C proved the police and state run agencies are not constitutionally bound to protect my life, freedom and liberty. So I need my constitutional rights granted to me to have and enjoy inalienable rights to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

Oh an you have the right to disagree. Just my 2 cent.

2nd Ammendment tired and wrong? Well str870s you Sir are an idiot whom I also believe is a troll. Go now Shillary is calling.

Mostly white men huh? San Bernandino, Chattanoga and Fort Hood come to mind. Go have a circle fest with your buddies there at UVA.

Don't forget to vote for Sanders while your at it.

I decided to pop back in for a minute.

twidpa, and Ogre, you misinterpret my statement. The Constitution is not wrong, the argument most gun fanatics use based on their interpretation of the Constitution is what's wrong. And it's tired.

masterlunatic, you actually sound like an intelligent person attempting to make cogent arguments. No one is challenging people's right to own guns. Obama (or whatever nicknames you all want to apply) is attempting to make sure that the people who get guns are responsible. It's that simple. The NRA's "do nothing" approach, or worse, their "arm every good guy" approach, is bull. You should have to demonstrate competency to be able to get a gun. I've seen gun owners with CCPs that couldn't hit a freakin' barn if it was 20 feet away, and people like those who shot the victim of a carjacking, and the woman who shot at a shoplifter's vehicle at Home Depot are examples of why we need a higher bar.

Ogre, I will vote for Sanders in the primaries, and hopefully in the general election as well. Are you familiar with his stance on guns? He's one of only two sane, intelligent, and compassionate (yes, it's important) candidates at the podium.

BTW, whatever your opinion of (S)Hillary, mine's probably worse.

Pretty bold to out yourself as knowing little about the Constitution and economics all in one sentence.

This is from Cornell Law - not known for being a very right leaning school..
https://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution/second_amendment

The Second Amendment has most recently been interpreted to grant the right of gun ownership to individuals for purposes that include self-defense. "the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."
"At first it was thought to apply only to the Federal government, but through the mechanism of the Fourteenth Amendment, it has been applied to the states as well". <-- from the site above.

It states individuals and "Shall not be infringed". not individuals that get 8 hours sleep, have 8 hours training, can pass an SAT exam with over 1100, can read, write, have no tickets, and understand how pulsars change under observation or when light or sound is introduced or any other infringement.

I as an Individual do not want your ideals Infringing on my Rights as a U.S citizen.

Further more if the same logic of a few bad people doing horrible things with any device, or idea is applied to free speech, immigration, social programs or any other situation on this planet. Than the rights of man no longer exist.

What we are facing is a version of McCarthyism against anyone associated with firearms, shooting sports or hunting.

masterlunatic, thank you again (sincerely) for engaging in balanced debate, rather than offering another of the usual bee ess responses on this board.

I'm going to state and start with one assumption, and folks here may disagree: ASSUMPTION - commission of certain crimes should in fact remove your right to own firearms. (Examples: violent crimes, gun-related crimes, etc.)

Closing the gun show loophole will prevent some people who shouldn't own firearms from buying them easily through "private" sales. You folks on this forum are probably not worried about a background check. Requiring a background check for a gun purchase just makes sense. Transfers between family members, friends, different story. The guy at the gun show doesn't know me from Adam. Therefore, he doesn't have reason to think I can't own a gun. BUT, he also doesn't have reason to think that I can. Loophole.

The regulatory language suggests that if a person doesn't have reason to believe that a purchaser can't own a gun, then it's okay. That's an EXTREMELY low standard. As I said before, in the 5 years between renewing a CCP, a lot can happen, and a lot of violent crimes can be committed. Let me sincerely commend everyone on here who requires "good guy papers" including a CCP or a voter registration card, because you are (sort of) running a rudimentary background check.

And masterlunatic, you have a valid point about the criteria for an individual right to own a gun, but those criteria you list include one that I believe SHOULD be necessary. The training piece is key. A LOT of firearms accidents occur because people don't know how to properly use, care for, and control their guns. No toddler should ever shoot someone, period. No one should shoot themselves or a friend cleaning while their guns. I realize these things don't relate to background checks, but it's all part of the general lack of *respect* Americans have for guns. Americans LOVE guns, but don't fully respect guns.

And I AM a gun owner, for all you folks who think I'm some "troll" who has nothing better to do than get the hair on the back of your neck standing up. I'm trying to have a discussion, so maybe WE as gun owners can come to a reasonable and workable middle ground where fewer "$#!+ happens" incidents occur, and we still get to have and enjoy the use of our guns. We obviously disagree on a lot of points, but I would hope that we all do agree on things like "our kids shouldn't be shot at school" and what not. I'm not against guns, I'm against stupid, malevolent people, as my signature suggests. I do think we should reduce the number of stupid, malevolent people who get guns.

BTW, just a general question since everyone seems to lean on the Second Amendment:

What does "well-regulated" mean in the context of "a well-regulated militia?"

Honest question. I haven't studied this, and haven't ever heard anyone address this.

Here's a pretty good writeup on the 2nd dating back to 1994 that I personally like.

You can read it all as it is a good historical review that is beleived to have driven the thinking of the founders.

Or, you skip to the last page and read the last 2 paragraphs.

http://www.constitution.org/2ll/2ndschol/89vand.pdf

Gun show loop hole has nothing to do with guns shows or dealers. It is a private sale of a tool from 1 party to another. I don't need to go to a car dealer to sell you my car why should i need to go to an ffl to sell you my gun. Also cars kill more people on accident, misuse and recklessness and firearms each year.

your statement on regulatory language assumes that CCP holders are not good people. If you look at the state data taken in the last 7 years only a handful of crimes have been committed by CCP holders. Further more it states none were with a firearm.

But lets apply this logic to other social and state issues. if an EBT user shoplifts should we take away the EBT card?

If a person gets a drunk in public charge should they loose the right to purchase alcohol?

If a person gets a speeding ticket should they loose the ability to drive and own a car?

I have been around a lot of private security, state, county and federal law enforcement in my life and i can tell you that they training most get at the county and private level is far less than most of the range time people on this board get. In most cases it is a few hours a year and a qualifier at sub 20 feet.

As for training being a key element to your debate. I go back to traffic and auto accidents. that kill more people each year than firearms during peace times.

As for training even the most well trained and experience chefs in the world still cut them selves and burn things. yes there is a difference between a knife cut and a reckless discharge. however practice and training in any amount is not 100% effective. if you dont believe me watch some cooking competitions. Or better yet go to a metro bus depot and see how many of them dont signal in traffic pulling out from the depot.

once again the issue is not the tools used by evil people or morons. but the fact that we have evil people and morons in our society. I for one do not wish to cater to the lowest common denominator. and if an idiot wants to look down the barrel of a fire arm on a misfire or climb inside a corn crib to remove a clog. I see no major loose in issuing a few darwin awards each year.

As for the evil people in this world. We are failures at punishing criminals. Jeffrey Domer was not put down like the animal he is, ole boy in Aurora Co was not disposed off nor was the DC sniper duo. We need to dispose of the animals that threaten our society vs carter to them and just keep them locked away from polite society.

I think we should reduce the stupid malevolent people not take away the rights from our polite citizenry.

str870s quote "BTW, just a general question since everyone seems to lean on the Second Amendment:
What does "well-regulated" mean in the context of "a well-regulated militia?"
Honest question. I haven't studied this, and haven't ever heard anyone address this."

str870s if you look at the constitution you will find a comma between the militia statement and the right of the people to keep and bear arms.

please note the use of the comma and the definition below
"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."definition of a grammatical comma. note used to separate items in a list.

com·ma
&#712;käm&#601;/Submit
noun
1.
a punctuation mark (,) indicating a pause between parts of a sentence. It is also used to separate items in a list and to mark the place of thousands in a large numeral.

if you want to take this even further look up the grammatical use of a comma in the 1700's and 1800's it is used to separate lists and thoughts only not for a pause in a sentence. Thus the reason why we as individual citizens have the un-infringed right to bear arms.
further more the supreme court case work i noted in my previous post Warren VS DC proves that the government is not bound to protect and individual but society as a whole. Thus the only way for me to exercise my right to life and liberty is to protect my self and have the protection for my self from tyranny, malevolent people and factions.

so the militia context doesn't apply to the individual as stated by the ultimate law of the land.

masterlunatic, Mark S, I'll take a look at the write-up on the Second Amendment, but...

Reading any portion of the Constitution, you quickly realize that a comma is quite often used as just a pause, or continuation of an idea. Even reading just the Second Amendment, the first comma is not a separator in a list. I call "bull" on the comma. The first, second, and last commas of the following, familiar language are not separators.

"We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America."

str870s- "...I will vote for Sanders in the primaries, and hopefully in the general election as well. Are you familiar with his stance on guns? He's one of only two sane, intelligent, and compassionate..."

There is no way to change your mind. You will use exceptions to argue for the rule. You mention a few instances where good guys made bad shots while trying to help. How many bad shots would be acceptable to stop a san bernadino, columbine or Connecticut? One little old lady spraying five shots from a pink S&W would have possibly broken up all of that carnage regardless of who the bad guys were and where those 5 bullets landed. The left will continue to mask their attempt to take away firearms with the "if it saves one life" argument. But they disregard the very real possibility that those laws and EO's may in fact cost lives by not allowing good guys to go armed and maybe break up an attack on otherwise defenseless folks.
You will argue for the very same policies that tried to destroy your ancestors (you brought it up). There is no way these EO's will prevent the bad guys from doing what they do. The EO's may however make good folks go thru extra time and procedure to buy a gun from a reputable source. But even that is not the big plan. Your pres joked about a conspiracy last night. Here is the big plan you and other socialist/communist folks publically deny: confiscation will begin with registration. Registration will begin with data collection. That is a fact proven by your history.
T

str870s Do not bypass the cuss filter. This is your warning.

Yawn...

str870s:
BTW, just a general question since everyone seems to lean on the Second Amendment:

What does "well-regulated" mean in the context of "a well-regulated militia?"

Honest question. I haven't studied this, and haven't ever heard anyone address this.

So, you haven't studied the subject and you're going to call "bull" on the comma? Is there any argument you aren't going to call "bull" on? Are you an English major, History major, or just another troll?

So you don't know anything about the 2nd Amendment but claim it is wrong?



It certainly looks like you don't know jack to me.



You're right, he is definitely a troll. That was my immediate impression from the start but decided to oblige him anyway. I know for a fact members at this forum have more than one account and like to troll with both accounts, so keep in mind there are members at this forum with little else to do but amuse themselves at everyone else's expense.

LaserJock, sorry for that. Won't happen again. (Actually ducking out now. Don't know what I was thinking.)

twidpa, you're about the only one here who keeps the arguments in the debate realm, and not the empty attack realm. Thank you again. By the way, the data collection > registration > confiscation process is a CAN happen, not a WILL happen. Without knowing exactly what guns I currently own, the government obviously knows I am a gun owner, what with the background checks, hunting license, FFL purchases, and CCP I carry.

Mark S, I'm an engineer. If I read a hypothesis, and can immediately disprove it with one staunch point (the exception to what is obviously NOT a rule given the exception(s)), I do so. Scientific method - part of debate.

Obviously I should stay out of the comment threads, because the conversation is amazingly one-sided, and defensively so. I'll leave you all with a quote (at the end), since both "sides" will tend to view their own favorably when reading it.

I have made, and do make, arguments for both sides of this debate. None of my arguments, in any forum, are based in anger or fear. That's what keeps it debate. Not that you all care, but I often argue against limitations and bans, again using exceptions to debunk rules. No one seemed interested when I did make points on "your" side (e.g. gun-free zones).

If anyone is interested in an intellectual exercise (this is clearly not the venue), PM me and perhaps we'll try this: argue for the "other side". We can meet at a coffee shop or restaurant, and each role play debating for what we currently view as the opposing side. This is an exercise I imagine will help all involved realize there is, in fact, middle ground.

BTW, not that I care, but if you look at the definition of troll, it is not exclusively "guy who doesn't agree with us on the discussion board."

Quote for the day:
"Arguing with idiots is like playing chess with a pigeon. No matter how good you are, the bird is going to knock the pieces over, poop all over the board, and strut around like it won anyway." For you folks, I am the pigeon. For me, the chess pieces are people who don't need to be killed.

CNN: Obama Should Declare National State of Emergency

The above article is a op-ed piece published by CNN which is not only supporting Universal Background Checks and the mental health related aspects of the proposed bill but is essentially calling for Martial Law in the United States in order to address the "epidemic" of gun violence. While I would like to write this article off as just one man's opinion the fact of the matter is this is a disturbing trend I think we should absolutely be concerned about.

Declaration of National Emergency





National Emergencies Act

https://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/HMAN-112/pdf/HMAN-112-pg1119.pdf

For those interested in learning more:

Dan Page

CNN: Gun Control Is One Thing But What About Bullets?

Operation Garden Plot

The United States Civil Disturbance Plan

New World Order: Garden Plot

Rex 84

Bush Replaced Rex 84

CNN: Historic Week as Dow Plunges

Special Message from Dan Page

Here's proof 870 is a troll; a quote from his post:The regulatory language suggests that if a person doesn't have reason to believe that a purchaser can't own a gun, then it's okay. That's an EXTREMELY low standard. As I said before, in the 5 years between renewing a CCP, a lot can happen, and a lot of violent crimes can be committed. Let me sincerely commend everyone on here who requires "good guy papers" including a CCP or a voter registration card, because you are (sort of) running a rudimentary background check.

Really, a lot of violent crimes? So
1) Violent crime>arrest>conviction>loss of ccp
2) Violent crime>no arrest>no loss of ccp

So the troll claims having a ccp doesn't show good guy status.
I will put his posts on my garden this spring for fertilizer.

Definitely Dem talking points. Makes as much sense as the new mayor of Philly saying they have too many Guns on the street when a Muslim yelling Allah Akbar while shooting a cop with a stolen cop weapon isn't an Islamic terrorist action.

Washington Post: Obama's Gun Control Not Enough, Confiscation Needed

Calls for martial law, confiscation in major mainstream media sources are becoming more common place. All of this sounds exactly like United Nations rhetoric which is ultimately designed to implement the Agenda 21 Sustainable Development Plan. The UN Arms Treaty is ultimately part of such a plan which is becoming a reality before our very eyes.

What all the gun grabbers fail to admit is that Australian and American numbers since the mid 1990s are very close in the drop in gun homicides even after the Australian confiscation.

The real difference is in gun suicides. There is A LOT of disagreement as to whether it decreases the suicide rate overall. Again, that is a also a mental health issue. The 2 suicides I've had a personal (friend of mine or family member) were both non-gun.

No matter how you slice it, the anti-gunners have become emboldened unlike any time since they got skewered in the elections of the '90's. They feel like now is their moment to push the master agenda of not just "gun safety" or "commonsense" regulation, but a series of ever more severe laws, regs, executive actions, and the like, until they've cinched a noose around the 2nd Amendment and choked the life out of it, for lack of a better illustration.

Folks, I feel strongly that this may be the lead up to the epic battle for the 2nd Amendment that so many have been saying is coming for decades now. This Presidential election will in no small part be the precursor, as the next President may very well appoint replacements for one or more of the current conservative Supreme Court Justices. And if the wrong person is the one at the helm, then you can rest assured that Heller and other gun right victories will be reversed, along with far worse outcomes in the months and years to come.

While these recent Executive Actions on the part of the Obama Admin can only be taken so far by the Anti's, they could certainly have a chilling effect on gun owners' rights in the long term, particularly in combination with other actions such as additional laws, and interpretations of existing law by emboldened agencies and States' Governor's.

I guess I'm probably going to start rambling here if I don't quit and get off my soap box; I just wanted to spout off about what I see as a dangerous trend emerging. God bless us here in this currently free Commonwealth, but I fear for how long. I just returned from visiting family in MA and let me tell you, none of us want our state to move towards that level of constriction against our civil rights, particularly gun rights. That's all for now...

Freedom and liberty will always be battling the emboldened ignorance and stupidity.

In December, 2015 the LA Times reported Obama planned to use Executive Orders to close the "gun show loophole." Recently it was reported on thehill.com that the Social Security Administration was considering reporting mentally ill patients to the FBI background check process in a move to block firearm purchases.

I have a huge problem with petitioning the state for permission to exercise a civil right, and possession of a firearm IS a civil right. I think we have all seen the futility of these background checks in stamping out crimes committed with the aid of a firearm. Much like speed limit laws, if they worked, there would be not crimes using guns in the area with universal background checks in place. We keep surrendering our rights until there are none left and we wonder what happened. These laws need to be resisted by any means. If enacted they must be ignored. If one sits on a jury of a defendant charged with possessing, selling or buying a firearm around a background check that one must find the defendant not guilty.

1+

Indeed. Be the judicial spoiler. By preserving that Defendant's rights you are also preserving YOUR rights.

7 Things To Know After Orlando Violence


It has not taken long before calls of Universal Background Checks and more gun control have echoed throughout the mainstream media. The article above was specially designed for this purpose alone. Interesting to note one of the lefts protected classes has once again slaughtered Americans and the solution these social justice warriors propose is to disarm Americans and take away their means of self defense.

Thus making situations like the shooting Orlando more likely to occur, not less likely. But the idea has never been about safety, gun control is actually people control disguised and wrapped up in a safety blanket. A wolf in sheeps clothing.

The recent calls for Universal Background Checks, expanding the background check process reminds me of the article I recently read below. A brief synopsis has it that there are many American who have a diagnosable mental health illness and as we've already seen in cases around the country, that is enough to disqualify one from legal ownership of firearms. The mental health records being a key component of the Universal Background Check process that virtually slides under the table because its the mechanism that can be used to deny Americans their second Amendment rights.

Americans sickest Nation in Modern World

This guy was a licensed security guard that carried a weapon for work.

Once again the call for 'stricter' regulations would have done nothing to stop this attack.

What we haven't heard from the traitor in chief or his boot licking proxies was that this was a Islamic Radicalism, because they can't tel the truth.

Maybe the LBGT community will begin to understand what the threat really is.

Firing an AR15 is Horrorfying

Above we see an example of Communist propaganda designed to frighten the general public and increase support for Universal Background Checks and an Assault Weapons Ban which President Obama recently called for (again).

When I first looked at the article I saw the author's name, 'Gersh Kuntzman', and I thought, 'is the NY Post playing a trick on us'?

Just what is, "the smell of destruction"????? I wonder if this guy ever goes to a July 4th fireworks display. Oh no!!!! the evil gun is too loud and makes me scared. What a load of crap. Let's not even go into the "expanded background checks" foolishness. Someone needs to inform these fools that there are NO Constitutional restrictive gun laws in this country.

Two things lately I think deserve mentioning, the recent filibuster and Democratic sit-in @ Congress, and that ridiculous article about why AR15's are so scary to shoot that some of y'all are already talking about here...

First off, the filibuster to force a vote, and subsequent sit-in by Dems, demanding a law that precludes people on secret government lists from being able to buy a gun. From left leaning orgs such as the ACLU, to many mainstream news orgs, we've seen criticism of this proposal - the fact that this proposal skirts all due process is a non starter for eliminating a Constitutional right. Imagine proposing the use of a secret government list to deny Americans of any other Constitutional right?! That being said, obviously no legitimate gun owner wants to see terrorists able to legally obtain arms in our country, but the threat of that being possible doesn't mean we throw our whole system of checks and balances, and due process of law out the window...

That article about how shooting an AR15 gave Gersh Kuntzman "Temporary PTSD" was almost laughable, were it not so pathetic and potentially insulting to our vets suffering from ACTUAL PTSD. When I saw a reference to the story, I went and found the actual story and the picture of this Gersh Kuntzman character, and I read it in amazement. My first reaction to his claim that the "recoil hurt his shoulder" was to try and find the picture of my 5-year old nephew shouldering his dad's AR, while my brother in law provided some support with the foregrip, and he actually fired the rifle and then smiled broadly...I think this article was merely propaganda designed to turn unknoledgeable people against MSR's. There are a surprising number of people who've never been exposed to firearms, and have no idea what the experience of using one is like.

The rhetoric around guns has certainly been heating up lately. This coming Presidential election should be interesting.

Gun Show Loop Hole To be Closed Via Executive Order

The writing is on the wall and you can fully expect more gun control to become a reality in the United States.

Most of you probably know about the AR15 case in Maryland.

A law which banned "assault weapons" passed in 2013 was challenged in Federal court in Maryland. The case is called Kolbe v. Hogan (originally filed as Kolbe v. O'Malley)

In August 2014, the trial court (Federal District court of Maryland -- first stop) found that the plaintiff Kolbe did not prove his case and upheld the Maryland AW ban. Two full years after the last filing.

Kolbe appealed to the 4th Circuit Appeals court. Absolutely huge list of amici filings in favor of Kolbe's case.

Justice Antonin Scalia dies February 13, 2016

In March 2016, the Circuit court issued a decision in Kolbe's favor and overturned the state law -- finding that there was a right to possess so-called "assault weapons."

Maryland had the choice to appeal the case to the US Supreme Court or petition for a rehearing of the entire 4th Circuit (all the judges at once). If they go to USSC, that's it. If they petition for a rehearing, they can still go to USSC.

Maryland opted for rehearing. The rehearing of the case took place on May 11, 2016.

We are still waiting on the decision. I believe they are waiting to see who is elected president. Re-hearing cases usually take 6-9 months to publish.

The presidential election is just a month away now.

If hillary is elected, (I predict) Kolbe will be decided in the plaintiff's favor, overturning Maryland's aw ban. Hillary will install her justice. Merrick Garland will sit. Garland is a noted anti-gun judge on the DC circuit.

That will then put the 4th Circuit in conflict with the 2nd and 9th circuits which have already ruled on nearly identical cases (Silveira v Lockyer and Shew v. Malloy).

Maryland will then appeal the case to SCOTUS and will be granted cert. Why? 1. The case involves a fundamental question of the constitution and 2. it involves a dispute among the circuits.

SCOTUS will review the cases and decide that even though the reasoning of Heller applies (i.e. common ownership, ubiquitous) the "extreme nature" of these weapons warrants an exclusion to the Heller doctrine. SCOTUS will vote 5-4 and overturn Kolbe and "2nd Amendment does not protect AWs" will become the law of the land.

Within a year, Hillary's ATF appointee (who will it be? Obama? Satan?) will issue a proposed change to the CFR which will reclassify all AWs as DD's. Opposition to the measure will be 99:1. ATF will pass it anyway. Don't tell me that they can't do it without changing federal law -- the AG has the authority under 18 USC 921 to find that a GCA firearm does not meet the "sporting purpose" rule and can be reclassified as a Destructive Device and subject to 26 USC (NFA).

Multiple lawsuits will be filed. All will be dismissed citing Kolbe -- no right to have an AW. AG has authority to reclassify based on sporting purposes under 18 USC.

New regs will require Federal registration of AWs within 1 year of the enactment. After that, unregistered possession of a DD (USC 924(c) are either 10 years or 30 years minimum (not kidding) and/or up to $250,000 fine per.

That's how it will happen. I have been right every single time I have called it like this.

If you think I am crazy, just look at the case history for US v. Miller. The trial judge overturned the NFA as unconstitutional!

Judge Heartsill Ragon, the one who found the NFA to be unconstitutional -- was an FDR appointee who served the the House and had vocally advocated for multiple restrictions on firearms. As a member of the US House, he co sponsored a bill that would have banned all private handgun ownership and another bill that banned interstate mailing of handguns.

The solicitor general of the US wanted a test case which found in favor of the NFA. This was it. Ragon issued a memorandum decision -- unheard of even today in constitutional issue cases -- and did not even state his reasoning.

His memorandum decision is ONE HALF OF A PAGE. Overturned a federal law for being violative of the constitution and did not provide even one reason to support it. Read it! https://scholar.google.com/scholar_case?...amp;oi=scholarr


If you hate Trump, hold your nose and vote for him.

"The supreme court is wrong on the Second Amendment" -- Hillary Clinton

"Well, I'm a big Second Amendment person. As an example, for the horrible thing that just took place in Oregon had somebody in that room had a gun, the result would have been better." -- Donald Trump

Listen to the video of her saying that Heller was decided WRONG -- i.e. she says the right to keep a handgun IN YOUR HOME FOR SELF PROTECTION is wrong.

VOTE!!

Great post ^^

I agree with most of your prediction, however as shown with history one thing is missing... conflict. To be able to slide it under the table like in 1934 (depression/prohibition), 1968 (Vietnam), and 1986 (Cold War).

So add in a needless escalation with Russia and China (by default) and you have the perfect recipe.

Obama admin finalizes Social Security Gun Ban

Tom for VA

Taken from Mr. P3Bills thread here.

Take the time to familiarize yourself with the details on universal background checks.

The Hill



Antifa wants to recruit mentally ill



Fox

Let the above information sink in, the Deputy Chair of the DNC is promoting Antifa, the same domestic terrorist organization responsible for violent protests across the country. Antifa is recruiting mentally ill members in the middle of a national debate on gun control where mental health is one of the mainstream talking points. Which just so happens to be what the left has been pushing for.

Cnn

Florida just passed legislation with some of the worst elements of the UCB model. As this thread lays out, these provisions are ripe for abuse.

Gun Control -- No matter what your opinion, you need to see this

Above, we see a fine, outstanding American who lays out a very powerful speech on gun control. Highly recommended viewing that I may or may not have previously posted. At any rate, its worth acknowledging again and again.





Cornell Law

Confiscation

The potential for abuse with this kind of legislation is wide open, under what circumstances can someone be deemed a threat to themselves or others? In this age of see something, say something consider how easy it is to come in contact with law enforcement? With this kind of environment, firearm owners could easily be walking on egg shells in an effort not to say something or do something to upset somebody who could easily turn you into the stasi for any number of false, half truth allegations. Your freedom of speech limited to towing the politically correct line because of how easily one could be reported for false or even true allegations which leads to a knock at the door from the stasi who are following up on any number of reports that could have been made against you.

A slippery slope which has already been abused in places like California and New York, and which will undoubtedly lead to further abuses as this kind of legislation spreads.

Over one million children age 6+ on psych meds

In light of the results in the recent election in Virginia and the sweeping gun control measures proposed by the left, its time to bring this thread back since so many conservative Americans apparently support Universal Background Checks according to the Washington Post.




Virginia's Assault Weapons Ban Goes Too Far

The next contributor that managed to get published in the Washington Post article went on to write about confiscation.



The real message from the Washington Post? Be happy if all that you get is Universal Background Checks, which you already wanted anyway. And as this thread lays out, you should be very careful of what you ask for. Because you might just get it.

Communism in the United States Today

Virginia Democrats Filing Proposal to Begin Confiscation

Bill (SB 64) to Make Firearms Training An Illegal Paramilitary Activity and Felony?

Manpower Guidance: Activation of USMCR in Support of Civil Authorities

Virginia Weapons Ban SB 16 Prefiled for 2020

Virginia Turns Anti Gun Overnight with Bloomberg-Waste no time with gun confiscation SB16,18,64

More Bad Virginia Gun Laws, Also Sanctuary Counties

Virginia is Ground Zero and Here is Why

Virginia Isn't as Virginia As It Thinks It Is

Yes Virgiinia, They Want to Seize Your Guns

Call to Action: Second Amendment Sanctuaries

Beyond Civil Disobedience

Governor Has Declared War

Chinese Communist Front Flips Virginia

Dems Threaten to use National Guard on Virginia 2a Sanctuary Counties

Lt. General Jerry Boykin on Marxist Insurgency in America

Command Sgt. Major Dan Page's Warning to America - Highly Recommended

Attorney General's response to 2nd Amend...ll be followed'

These leftists are beside themselves with anticipation on the future gun control measures certain to come down the pipe in Virginia.

Virginia National Guard Responds to Governor Northam

Here we are 7-years later since the inception of this thread and Universal Background Checks are generally agreed upon by the membership of the forum as having had a dampening effect on private sales in Virginia.

Richmond - July 2020 Universal Background Checks Law in VA

18-20 year olds exempt from UCB

Yeap, pretty much taken all of the fun out of it. That's what Dems do, remove the fun from anything.