Handgun ammo availability and venting on gougers

I've been seeing quality 9mm at fairly reasonable prices popping up on the normal online retailers regularly (SGAmmo, TargetSportsUSA to name a couple).

I've had a couple interactions with members on this forum selling ammo, and I have to vent a little on them. Guys, if you're selling ammo that is available, in stock, at retailers, demanding a 33% or more premium over current retail price is predatory on people who just aren't tracking availability. I'm all about capitalism, but that's not capitalism, it's theft. I'd like to think our shooting community in VA is better than that.

Am I wrong? Probably, but I'd like to be right.

I'm pro capitalism, but....

Are you pro second amendment, but... as well?



How can it be predatory if the information to get a lower price is readily available and people are either too lazy or too busy or too dumb to find it?

How can it be theft if it's a voluntary exchange between two willing market participants?

Can't be theft if it's not yours in the first place. It's their ammo. Private property to do with as they please

Some people have ALWAYS been posting ammo and other items at prices above retail or at retail. They are focused on what they want (their money back) rather than the potential buyers motivation. Why would someone want to hassle with meeting some random person when they can order online at same price or cheaper?

I typically price parts/ammo I want to sell a bit below the best online price. To get it to move really need to price it about 20% lower or better.

You're right. I'm pro 2A, but I also believe in severe punishment for people who use guns in illegal or immoral ways. Oh well, call me a hypocrite if you will. My point is that gouging ISN'T capitalism. I appreciate the attempt to undermine my point by making a false equivalency. You're more than welcome to disagree.

NVCDL:
I'd totally understand people wanting their money back. However, since I haven't seen 9mm being sold online for anywhere near prices that some members are asking, I greatly doubt that they are just trying to get their money back. They're hoping to find people who are unaware that ammo is available through normal channels.

You are absolutely right, they can do as they please. And so can I in calling out their BS.

Not a false equivalency at all. People who claim to be "pro second amendment but" usually follow up in favor of some "reasonable restriction" on what is quintessentially second amendment protected activity (like supporting mag capacity limits). Similarly, you are claiming to be pro capitalism but then criticizing what is quintessentially capitalistic activity (trying to maximize one's price at what the market will bear). In other words, I'm comparing apples to apples.

V8, I disagree in that I don't believe that gouging is a capitalist practice in that it attempts to artificially alter the market. Again, you're free to disagree.

I'm 100% on board with removing regulation from what should be a free market. I'm also for tax exempt nukes for toddlers on the 2A side. Appreciate your input even if we disagree.

Most of the for sale posts on the board are priced over retail - people are silly.

.....

I, personally, dont look at it as gouging. Some people don't want to order online at all... they want to get it right then and have it in their hands.

My local stores have 0 9mm ammo available... luckily I've been a reloader for 40 years and I don't need to purchase any. With that said.... if person A has a product and advertises the price they want for it, and person B says yes, I would like to purchase it, that is not gouging. I view this as supply and demand. If a person doesn't want to purchase it, they simply move on and don't purchase it.

I looked at Gunbroker today, prices for a case of 9MM FMJ range ammo is going for $450 - $500. Its supply and demand. Gun purchases are double what they were this time last year and the demand for ammo has skyrocketed. Also, there is a copper shortage going on for ammo components as many of the copper mines have been shut down due to covid since april. I'm betting that ammo prices will continue to go up.

I definitely have seen the prices continue to go up, and folks are not only buying it, they are reselling it for more. Can't see why ammo manufacturers wouldn't continue to allow the gravy train to continue. Make half as much ammo, and still make the same amount of money as before. The prices continue to rise. The profits continue to grow. And once a round of 556 makes it to 2 bucks a bullet, everyone will talk about how they bought cheap and stacked it deep at a $1 a bullet.

The only reason a person would be buying ammo during these crazy times is because they didn't learn during the last 20-plus years of panics.

You can't come on here and complaining about people trying to make money off of their forward thinking just because you didn't think far enough ahead to cover yourself during the next panic. This should be a learning opportunity for anyone not already reloading, but it never is.

It's crazy. I was curious what prices are currently going for 9mm, so I watched a few auctions on Gunbroker aka Crapbroker. 1000 rounds 9mm Blazer was going for ~$550 average (about a 65% premium).

Reloading: Once fired 9mm brass is going for 0.15-.17 a round, almost what you used to be able to get for a complete 9mm Winchester round. What's the point spending money on brass when you can't even get primers or bullets to reload.

The craziness needs to stop.

Maybe I’m the oddball one here, but I’ll add to the discussion with my views on the subject. I have plenty of ammo to be comfortable. I definitely have the luxury of NOT having to buy at crazy inflated prices.

Having said that, although I always knew we may experience times like these, my intention was never to sell stockpiles of ammo at booming prices for whatever profits they would bring. I see how it can be a good incentive for all these new (possibly previously anti-gun, liberal) gun owners to get on the 2A train and not vote like dumb-dumbs from now on.

But the people out here selling cases of basic 55 grain 5.56 ammo for ~$1000 or your Walmart assortment of 9mm for ~$600 a case need to understand that you will reap what you sow. Once you “normalize” these inflated prices, you will eventually be the ones paying the same money to buy your next batch of ammo.

I will always prioritize the ability of the masses to shoot and train for reasonably low priced ammo over making a few bucks off of desperate buyers in a pandemic. In the end, the chase of a few small stacks of money is not worth me losing the ability to shoot for cheap because we trained the market to overcharge us by our own free will.

Yea, supply affects demand, demand affects price, so on and so forth with the complex economic relationships of a free market. That is capitalism and that is fine. All I’m saying is let’s not screw ourselves in the long run by normalizing the abnormal.

^ Definitely agree with many of those pints. Hard to say what will be "normal" from here on out..

I saw a video the other day about the ammo "crisis".In previous few years the industry has been geared up to produce 8 billion rounds/year.Demand is currently at 10x that .In no way even with every manufacturer operating 24/7 could they produce "80"billion rounds a year.The source said 1.5-2years just to get close to normal again.Make it count,work on quality drills with less ammo.To original price gouging comment...Things are only worth what someones willing to pay.Good luck

Agreed. A small mark up is cool but the gougers, like the guy on here asking $1.30 per round for green tip 5.56 are scum.

The ammo crunch is officially ending. How do I know? Suddenly there is TONS of ammo available on the "AMMO FOR SALE" forum. All the guys how vacuumed up all the ammo see that production has caught up, availability through normal channels is being restored, and they are going to try to cash out as quick as they can. Ammoseek now delivers results for 5.56, prices are still high but lower than they were just last week and availability holds out for more than a week, instead of merely hours as previously.

EXACT same thing happened with the .22LR crunch. You guys remember? 22's were impossible to find in stores or online. And then suddenly people started selling 22's here right and left, in fantastic quantities, demanding top prices at first but the prices fell slowly at first and then suddenly as 22's hit the stores and stayed.

I love this site. I will never buy from anyone who is contributing to the shortages by buying privately for resale. If you want to buy ammo to resell for a profit, open a business.

You know who you are. And so do I.

Or everyone just ran outta money

very funny FordBoy!

There are some listings posted lately that reinforce why I dislike most people. The current mania on Kalashnikov related anything, is a perfect example of a true disconnect from supply and demand. It’s a snowball effect of greed building upon the fear of missing out on being a part of said greed.

Not everyone has gray pubes or has been old or owning guns long enough to remember the last 20 years of shortages.

Im glad to live in a Capitalist country And if you are selling 5.56 ammo for outrageous profits you are a piece of shite person.

If you are selling 9mm for 50c per rd or more you are a piece of shite person.

Its certainly not gouging if its not food water or fuel at this point, its just being an assholeshitperson.

Lol. Enjoy your rewards.

9mm

They're not gougers, scalpers is a more appropriate term.

I just ignore all of them on here doung that, I do wish that this site set it up so you could make a comment as to why you ignored each person.

Charles.

I paid $5 for a bottle of water once, while stuck in traffic on a freeway on a hot day. I was glad for the opportunity in my time of need. I bring extra water now

Opinions are like a**holes, everyone has one.

So, why get upset over this? I go by what I am willing to pay.
Sure somebody might be asking a certain price...offer then what you are willing to pay. If they get offended, then thats their problem and that comes with selling things privately. They also have the right to say no and hold out for the price they want. Nobody is forcing anyone on here to spend their money and nobody is forcing anyone to purchase items. Not sure what all the fuss is about 🤷‍♂️

Well said brother. Some are getting mad because they got caught with their pants down and now can't find any ammo "dirt cheap". I only started selling mine after a coworker "begged" for me to sell him a few being he got tired of driving around looking for them. If they don't like the $$, then just move on and keep looking. I'm still looking for another SP5K-PDW that retailed for $2800, but I'm not getting all bent out of shape because people are selling them for over $5k

i was a nice guy through both Obama elections, newtown, vegas etc. i'm tired of being nice. Friends get ammo at before prices. dummies get to get with the effects of supply and demand

You need to teach that common sense.



I probably have more .22 ammo than most people other than hoarders in the country and a reasonable amount of other common but not available calibers and that is a known fact among friends and co-workers; you help one person and the info spreads like wild fires. During good times, I get labels. During bad times, I get requests for ammo. I even had people asking me for hunting ammo and I thought hunters keep 100+ rds on hands all the time. Friends still get free ammo from me but co-workers and acquaintances will be turned down as I don’t want to sell to them at my reasonable prices. I want them to hustle or pay the scalpers. I sell my excess in bad times as I tend to stumble upon calibers I must have. I ask reasonable price below market because I don’t do this for living and rather not drive all over town to sell a box so my prices are wholesale; e.g $0.09 per round of match .22 while others charg $0.15 for standard ammo.

I am buying tcm.22 with both fiat now. I just need to find a way to convert my G17 to shoot that with only a barrel swap instead of the whole upper receiver. Either that or buy a rifle. If onky I was in a gun business, I have tons of million-dollars ideas.

If someone NEEDS this ammo to survive is one thing
If its just something they WANT and they're willing to pay inflated prices....hey, its thier money.
Don't like the sellers prices? Shop around.

Sound like someone didn’t prepare for the winter.

$0.50 per 9mm is cheap now. Just wait until ubc is required for ammo purchase, everything will double right before people go radio silence.

Sorry guy but supply and demand determine the price of ammo. If I were to sell it to you at last year's fair price you would turn right around and resell it. If I were to sell you ammunition I sure would be paying attention to the replacement cost of getting ammunition.
Sorry but the world is not a nice place.

Just so you know I have no intention of selling anyone ammunition.

For some of you I have cheese and crackers to go with your “whine”!


Now, I know some of you have 401k/stocks/gold/silver/vintage car and a home.
SO, now let’s replace ammo with any of the above. Do you still feel the same?

If so, I’ll sell 9mm/5.56 ammo for $0.25 and $0.50 a rd respectively, however I only accept pre 1964 quarters.


Please send pics and we can arrange a FTF

Not all but many on guntrader are about flipping and gouging someone anyway , but yet are the first ones to try to shoot someone else to pieces on price or trade just so they can flip it for more , but that’s just the way it is , you just ignore them and use your regulars that you know aren’t trying to screw someone over , there is good people on here that are enthusiasts and traders and aren’t about making a buck , far few and in between but they are here .

Greed.

So everyone knows Cabelas at Short Pump in Richmond had a ton of ammo today. 9mm was abundant at $.32 cpr. 223 was $.65. 22lr was $.08. When this marketplace is flooded with $.70 9mm herters just know they paid $.32 today.

As of today I dont see any relaxing. Look at Ammoseek for 357 magnum. $4.00 per round. 6.5 Creedmoor about the same. WTF?

On a separate note theres a guy advertising her who Ive contacted 3 times, told him Id pay his price and drive to his location and he hasnt had the curtesy to return my comm's. I reckon he doesnt want to seel it very badly.

Cabela's out in Gainesville has ammo regularly, buut if you don't want to wait in a line of 200-300 people or can't afford to spend several mornings a week just for the possible chance of getting ammo (9mm specifically) it makes perfect sense to save your time (aka your money) by paying a bit more through an FTF private sale. I don't think it's gouging when I've spent 2 and a half hours waiting to see what's left and then recouping some of the cost while giving others ammo cheaper than online sources. It's a matter of convenience imho. Get what you're saying, but have to disagree when anyone can line up if they have time or want to.

To everyone looking for ammo. I’m retired and pretty much head to cabellas when I can with the money I. Have to put on here for below what gun stores sell it for. But not cabellas because I drive an hour. Wait in line. Freeze my **I VOTED FOR BIDEN** off trying to find your orders just to find out you can’t afford it when I inflate for gas and time spent. There are good people on here and I’m one. If you need a caliber. Let me know. How much of it you want. And if they have it I will grab it. Text me at 6035718293. I build fix and sell ammo and guns as a hobby. Retired vet. It’s just a side hustle and a hobby to keep me busy. Sorry to say that tomorrow I will not be able to get any ammo as I do not have the funds but I do have some 556 green tip if not sold tomorrow. And will have 1000 rounds of 9 here in a day or two which is gold where I live. Don’t get mad at the sellers unless you spend as much time and gas as we do trying to help you guys out. At least I am. Just remember. Time is money and if I spend 4 hours of my day in line fighting people for ammo. Getting there to find out ammo isn’t available. Ship it from out of state for you guys. This is at my expense so you guys can shoot. Ease up fellas or get the ammo on your own. Only so many of us are on here to help. Just find the good ones. I’m located in Woodbridge but once again. If you need a caliber. Or looking for guns. Need things fixed or just want me to spice up your piece I’m here to help. Have fun shooting boys and girls and look for when I post ammo cheap. Means I’m getting rid of it and making another run around Virginia to find you guys what you need. Happy shooting

Oh and here’s perspective. It cost me ten in gas to get there. 3 hours in line because I always get there first. And 5 hours of my day driving to people homes to bring them the ammo. Not only am I getting it. I deliver it. If that’s not service you guys want then I don’t know how else to help you and no I’m not selling it for what the price is if when I get it for. People are asking 45 dollars for a box of 9i ask 35 for good ammo and 40 for 124 grain when I find it and if your a regular you get discounts. I just sold 300 45 for 220 and shipped it to Texas for a friend because of their shortage. Just be happy you have ammo here. Go to another state. They don’t have it. Lastly. If you call me before 7 tomorrow and have money in hand. Tell me what you need. I will make a run because cabellas will have a shipment tomorrow. I leave exactly at 7 am so call me by 6 630. Hopefully your on the way to Gainesville and I’ll grab it. I’m already up so feel free to call at anytime from now till 7. 6035818293. I don’t have money to front ammo tomorrow so this is just a friendly favor. If you need it. Call me. Happy shooting everyone. We all love our guns. Let’s quit **I VOTED FOR BIDEN** about how much more we like to shoot em.

That's hilarious. You are the good guy. I guess you don't realize that if all of you "good guys" weren't doing that, there would be ammo on the shelf for everyone to buy.
And no, I'm not bitter, because I know how to buy ammo. Which is, buy it after the runs, not during. I have what I need, as well as supplies for loading.

Registration of and limits on ammo purchases will help reduce waste.

"Waste" ? That's what I've been doing with ammo since I was 6 ! And having a good time doing it ...

Registration? Really?
Either you're one of those who doesn't learn from history, or you're just a troll.
eta: seeing you're wanting to "Close your account" I'm thinking you're just a leftist troll.

It does appear that some prices are coming down a little for certain ammo. Starting to see closer to .50-.60ct per round on generic 5.56 instead of the .80+. 12ga Buckshot still very high but can be found for closer to $1 per round if you look around.

Gouging Explained

I like your idea - but I will only accept silver dollars at face value !

Got some 9mm @ 36cpr day before yesterday (5/27). Seemed like a healthy supply was available. I think we're coming out the other side of this thing. At least until Biden introduces some sweeping gun ban legislation.

Where did you get yours from manwich? Ammo is going to have interesting 2021. Last year it was the election and covid. This year it will be what is Biden going to do

well if any of you follow ammoseek or instockammo on reddit, 9mm is regularly available for 40cpr

Gas should cost around .40 cent a gal and can be made from coal for almost nothing ….what’s your point about the cost of Ammo ? Things cost what people will pay for them. You should being complaining about all the Tax’s we pay and freedoms we have lost. Not about the free market system that made this country