Posted by: VaGunTrader

- 12/30/09 10:53 PM

A few members have shown concern about newer members on here that are either located in another state or are a resident of another state but claim they are in Virginia and are on this site trying to purchase a firearm.

Don't get yourself in trouble by breaking the law. Educate yourself on the laws.

You never know who your dealing with !!:shock:

These are a copy/paste straight from the ATF website:

A person may sell a firearm to an unlicensed resident of his State, if he does not know or have reasonable cause to believe the person is prohibited from receiving or possessing firearms under Federal law. A person may loan or rent a firearm to a resident of any State for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes, if he does not know or have reasonable cause to believe the person is prohibited from receiving or possessing firearms under Federal law. A person may sell or transfer a firearm to a licensee in any State. However, a firearm other than a curio or relic may not be transferred interstate to a licensed collector.


A person may only acquire a firearm within the person’s own State, except that he or she may purchase or otherwise acquire a rifle or shotgun, in person, at a licensee’s premises in any State, provided the sale complies with State laws applicable in the State of sale and the State where the purchaser resides. A person may borrow or rent a firearm in any State for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes.



A person not licensed under the GCA and not prohibited from acquiring firearms may purchase a firearm from an out-of-State source and obtain the firearm if an arrangement is made with a licensed dealer in the purchaser’s State of residence for the purchaser to obtain the firearm from the dealer.


http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/unlicensed-persons.html#gca-unlicensed-transfer

QUESTIONS ??

COMMENTS ??

SUGGESTIONS??

Please speak up now
Posted by: oldblue76

- 12/31/09 01:00 AM

Thank you very much, I think this post will be helpful to current and future users of this site. Our Commonwealth is reasonable in regards to our 2nd amendment rights, lets all help keep it that way for the next generation.
Posted by: halfded

- 01/03/10 07:57 PM

I think the site should be limited to those in VA before it's overrun by basement-run gun shops and scammers and the like.

Just my .02.
Posted by: dontcallmeradio

- 01/04/10 02:11 AM

[user=770]halfded[/user] wrote:
:
I think the site should be limited to those in VA before it's overrun by basement-run gun shops and scammers and the like.

Just my .02.

Amen Brother
Posted by: MP3Mogul

- 01/04/10 08:42 AM

Much Agreed
Posted by: oneshotonekill

- 01/04/10 10:51 AM

I could not have said it any better I agree as well wink
Posted by: bulldawg01

- 01/17/10 09:58 PM

How many of our fellow Virginians know that you can ship to each other w/out going thru an FFL?

EXAMPLE:

This is a qoute from a fellow member off another forum that mentioned his day at ups office..I would have never believed it myself;but about a week ago I did the same thing.And mine went off w/out a hitch.

This is what he did;and I did the same thing..

I sold a Smith to a Forum member, who is a Virginia resident. I went down to the regional UPS hub and the counter lady helped me wrap the handgun in bubble wrap, after checking the cylinder. However, when I stated that I was shipping to an individual, she balked, saying I could only ship to an FFL or a licensed collector.

I had printed out the UPS firearms section, where it stated "person to person, if not prohibited by law" and the section from the ATF FAQs, where it says that residents of the same state can ship to each other by common carrier.

The counter lady called corporate and I spoke to another customer rep, who repeated the same line. After listening to her, I asked to speak with her supervisor. I repeated the UPS regs and the Federal law to her. After she researched the ATF regs and the UPS guidelines online, she approved my shipment.
Posted by: ktyhawk

- 01/18/10 11:28 AM

[user=7667]bulldawg01[/user] wrote:
:
How many of our fellow Virginians know that you can ship to each other w/out going thru an FFL?

EXAMPLE:

This is a qoute from a fellow member off another forum that mentioned his day at ups office..I would have never believed it myself;but about a week ago I did the same thing.And mine went off w/out a hitch.

This is what he did;and I did the same thing..

I sold a Smith to a Forum member, who is a Virginia resident. I went down to the regional UPS hub and the counter lady helped me wrap the handgun in bubble wrap, after checking the cylinder. However, when I stated that I was shipping to an individual, she balked, saying I could only ship to an FFL or a licensed collector.

I had printed out the UPS firearms section, where it stated "person to person, if not prohibited by law" and the section from the ATF FAQs, where it says that residents of the same state can ship to each other by common carrier.

The counter lady called corporate and I spoke to another customer rep, who repeated the same line. After listening to her, I asked to speak with her supervisor. I repeated the UPS regs and the Federal law to her. After she researched the ATF regs and the UPS guidelines online, she approved my shipment.

This is true of long guns, but for handguns???  I thought all handguns had to go through a FFL if shipped, even intrastate.   Can you post the link you found please?
Posted by: bulldawg01

- 01/18/10 12:43 PM

I called the local sheriff's office and they said a gun does not have to be reregistered anywhere because it has already been registered one time already..So why would you want to get an FFL involved if you don't have to.I shipped a handgun to someone in VaBeach thru UPS and they really had nothing to say..Just fill out all the proper paperwork and get the other person's ID and keep it for ur records just in case something was to happen after it left you and it was registered to you...I tried to find a link;but all I get is BS sites about the government:P..If you want to find out;just go to ur local ups office..If they give you well you can't do that phrase;ask them to show you why you can't..And they won't be able to..:DCommonwealth State has it's own laws!!!:D:D:D:D:dude::dude::shock:[user=31]ktyhawk[/user] wrote:
:
[user=7667]bulldawg01[/user] wrote:
:
How many of our fellow Virginians know that you can ship to each other w/out going thru an FFL?

EXAMPLE:

This is a qoute from a fellow member off another forum that mentioned his day at ups office..I would have never believed it myself;but about a week ago I did the same thing.And mine went off w/out a hitch.

This is what he did;and I did the same thing..

I sold a Smith to a Forum member, who is a Virginia resident. I went down to the regional UPS hub and the counter lady helped me wrap the handgun in bubble wrap, after checking the cylinder. However, when I stated that I was shipping to an individual, she balked, saying I could only ship to an FFL or a licensed collector.

I had printed out the UPS firearms section, where it stated "person to person, if not prohibited by law" and the section from the ATF FAQs, where it says that residents of the same state can ship to each other by common carrier.

The counter lady called corporate and I spoke to another customer rep, who repeated the same line. After listening to her, I asked to speak with her supervisor. I repeated the UPS regs and the Federal law to her. After she researched the ATF regs and the UPS guidelines online, she approved my shipment.

This is true of long guns, but for handguns???  I thought all handguns had to go through a FFL if shipped, even intrastate.   Can you post the link you found please?

Posted by: ATFmy3favs

- 01/18/10 11:52 PM

Wow, I assumed this was wrong but I checked the ATF site and found:

Quote:



  1. Q: May a nonlicensee ship a firearm by common or contract carrier?
[/*]



A nonlicensee may ship a firearm by a common or contract carrier to a resident of his or her own State or to a licensee in any State. A common or contract carrier must be used to ship a handgun. In addition, Federal law requires that the carrier be notified that the shipment contains a firearm and prohibits common or contract carriers from requiring or causing any label to be placed on any package indicating that it contains a firearm.

[18 U.S.C. 922(a)(2)(A), 922(a) (3), 922(a)(5) and 922(e), 27 CFR 478.31 and 478.30]


Who'd a thunk it????? Why did I not know this? I guess I have to change my site name to ATFidontstudythelawsasmuchasIshould.

Also found this but I should state up front this site link is NOT atf it is private but does have some good information about what to expect from UPS, Fed-X, and the USps.

http://www.thegunzone.com/ship-guns.html

One thing I feel strongly about adding is: If you do mail a firearm to someone, I would think it would have to be someone you know pretty well considering the checking of their Va residency, face to face you can look at their face and the picture and know it is them and that it is valid/current. Electronically things can be altered and you could be sending it to someone who borrowed someones current va drivers license etc. Just a thought.
Posted by: Seraph ShadowCell

- 01/22/10 04:40 PM

This is also worth checking:

http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?000+cod+TOC

always need to compare your state law/code with fed laws/regs


http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?101+ful+HB106
Posted by: .308holes

- 01/30/10 12:05 AM

Lets go with Virginians only.

Mods / admin, can we do this? I don't think we will get friction from members that are FROM Va.

Another issue:   http://www.vaguntrader.com/view_topic.php?id=10185&forum_id=3&jump_to=57115
Posted by: duramaxpower

- 01/31/10 10:32 AM

Posted by: jluellen

- 01/31/10 07:01 PM

I would say we should do one of the following in order of precidence.

 

1. Make the site avail only to VA residents, or military personnel stationed in VA.

 

2. Create an "out of state" section so that the members dont have to worry about what state someone is in unless they specifically go to that State...

 

Thanks!
Posted by: oneshotonekill

- 02/01/10 11:07 AM

[user=830]jluellen[/user] wrote:
:
I would say we should do one of the following in order of precidence.

 

1. Make the site avail only to VA residents, or military personnel stationed in VA.

 

2. Create an "out of state" section so that the members dont have to worry about what state someone is in unless they specifically go to that State...

 

Thanks!

I think the bolded text sounds great dammit I am glad to be an Virginian I feel that this is our site so why give them a reason to be here as for #2 nope don't even give them a reason to clog the site these guys should have plenty of outlets in there area to B/S/T what do you think guys????
Posted by: Mall Punisher

- 02/02/10 06:02 PM

The scarier part still is member(s) trying to unload Class III stuffs and newbies don't know that Class III requires paperwork done before hand.  I know one dude claims you can make full auto Class III stuffs at home before BATF approval and it's your decision when to ask.  That doesn't make any sense since you don't get to make stuffs until such stuffs are approved after the extended wait time. 

IT IS NOT OK TO ASK FOR FORGIVENESS INSTEAD OF PERMISSION WHEN IT COMES TO BATF OR OTHER GOVERNMENT OFFICIAL.

Surprisingly all of his Class III stuffs sold right away when I brought the topic.  No one want it before.  He could be a desperate fed or some scammer selling junk.  I think we need to get rid of Class III section or make posters post the the entire regulation in each of their listing.  On the topic of outsiders, we should ban them since nothing good can come from people wanting to travel hundreds of miles to pick up something their state already sell.  I personally ran into a Marylander trying to pick something up from me.  He wasted my time driving up to Tyson Corner (60 miles away) and try to pull a fast one by flashing the cash instead of his ID.  He also showed up with another person in a VA tagged car to fool some people in the excitement of making a sale.  If it wasn't against the law to drop kick someone, he surely would have gotten stomped for being stupid. 
Posted by: VAKnight

- 02/05/10 07:41 PM

I may be new here, but I am with Mall Punisher on this issue.

I would agree with his advice, but with a minor modification. I would have a locked post set up (anyone with admin privs can mod at any time...I have run a few forums in my days) reminding people of the Class III rules and also listing only Class III dealers that WANT to be listed, and recommend that people seek out the Class III dealers for Class III issues.

The last thing we need is some nutcase lib saying people are trying to move machine guns on the web. Lord knows...somehow the forum owner/owners may get hit one day with aiding and abedding. Those feds don't play around much.
Posted by: Mall Punisher

- 02/05/10 10:38 PM

[user=8507]VAKnight[/user] wrote:
:
I may be new here, but I am with Mall Punisher on this issue.

I would agree with his advice, but with a minor modification. I would have a locked post set up (anyone with admin privs can mod at any time...I have run a few forums in my days) reminding people of the Class III rules and also listing only Class III dealers that WANT to be listed, and recommend that people seek out the Class III dealers for Class III issues.

The last thing we need is some nutcase lib saying people are trying to move machine guns on the web. Lord knows...somehow the forum owner/owners may get hit one day with aiding and abedding. Those feds don't play around much.

Feds do not play.  Nor do police wanting to make a career for themselves.  Nothing sounds better for a career than a front page article about how he/she kept guns off the streets.

There is an African American police that always show up at Fredericksburg gun show.  He is tall, in his mid to late 30s or possibly his early 40s but he dress like he's in his 20s.  He walks around like normally and once in awhile pull out a wad of cash and start counting.  At first I thought he was some well-off fellow or possibly a hood guy because he dress like one.  I found out he's a cop when I walked out to my car to put away a few thousands rounds of x39 and saw him getting out of an unmarked car.  I made it a mission to follow him around and see what he does.  He actually monitor some people making private transaction to see if they check each other ID according to the law.  He even showed interest on a few items.  I don't know if he actually buy them to see if the law is followed or not but I do know he's on the job at all of the Fredericksburg show.  I don't see him in Richmond or Chantilly so I think he's Fredericksburg city cop.

I agree that the original listing can't be change.

As for the Class III listings that I had issue with on this forum, I notice that listing kept getting refreshed even though it had been moved to "Sold" section and no-one made any new post on it.  That tells me someone is viewing it or doing something to refresh it.


Posted by: ktyhawk

- 03/11/10 09:45 AM

A person may only acquire a firearm within the person’s own State, except that he or she may purchase or otherwise acquire a rifle or shotgun, in person, at a licensee’s premises in any State, provided the sale complies with State laws applicable in the State of sale and the State where the purchaser resides. A person may borrow or rent a firearm in any State for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes.

This is from the OP's post.  Does this mean it IS legal for a resident of VA to do a FTF for a rifle with a NC resident?  As far as I can see the standards are the same in both VA and NC, but I'm to dense to figure out if the above precludes such a transaction.

In rengrish prease?
Posted by: Quaato

- 03/11/10 10:52 AM

[user=31]ktyhawk[/user] wrote:
:
Does this mean it IS legal for a resident of VA to do a FTF for a rifle with a NC resident?


No, any transactions with someone not residing in your same state MUST be handled through an FFL. Although, it is possible to meet them in person at an FFL dealers location.

Posted by: Glockwise

- 03/24/10 10:30 AM

This is a great resource. I just wanted to make two comments.

1. Only FFL's can ship weapons through the Post Office. Check with USPS regs for the particulars. Non-licensees can legally ship through commercial carriers, such as UPS and Fedex. I believe the only restriction is that it has to be air freight and not ground transportation.

2. Guns are not registered in the state of Virginia. Background checks only list the type of gun; the background check is destroyed after approval unless you have a UPIN. There is no database for serial numbers, owners, or purchase information.

Of course, this is always subject to change. Always check the current laws and regs.
Posted by: halfded

- 03/24/10 10:39 AM

So you're saying that after a gun is purchased all record of who bought it is destroyed?

Meaning that if the State Police ran my serial number, they wouldn't be able to definitively say this is my gun?

There's no way for the ATF to type my name into a database and search all the 4473's my name is on? I thought FFL's were required to keep that paperwork for 20 years?

Not trying to call you out, just like to stay current on all the legal ins and outs.
Posted by: Quaato

- 03/24/10 10:53 AM

[user=10212]jerrybyers[/user] wrote:
:
1. Only FFL's can ship weapons through the Post Office.


Please forgive my disagreement with that statement;)...Non-licensees can mail long arms via USPS, but not handguns.

From the USPS web site: "Although unloaded rifles and shotguns not precluded are mailable, mailers must comply with the Gun Control Act of 1968, Public Law 90-618, 18 USC 921, et seq., and the rules and regulations promulgated thereunder 26 CFR 178, as well as state and local laws."
Posted by: Glockwise

- 03/24/10 10:58 AM

Yes, I knew that long guns could be shipped through USPS, but there are exceptions to every rule. That is why I mentioned checking with USPS for the particulars.

Here is a good reference for background checks:

http://www.lcav.org/states/virginia.asp#RegistrationofGuns

:
The Department of State Police generally may not maintain dealer background check records longer than 30 days from any request "pertaining to a buyer or transferee who is not found to be prohibited from possessing and transporting a firearm under state or federal law." Va. Code Ann. § 18.2-308.2:2(B)(3). However, records of multiple handgun transactions shall be maintained for twelve months, and the log on all background check requests (which consists of the name of the purchaser, the dealer identification number, the unique approval number and the transaction date), may be maintained for twelve months. Id.

Counties may require sellers of handguns to furnish the clerk of the circuit court "with the name and address of the purchaser, the date of the purchase, and the number, make and caliber of the weapon sold" within 10 days of any handgun sale. Va. Code Ann. § 15.2-1207.
Posted by: Glockwise

- 03/24/10 11:01 AM

Here is additional clarification from the same reference:

:
Firearms dealers shall require a prospective purchaser to present one piece of government issued photo-identification, and a separate documentation of residence, before seeking a background check. Section 18.2-308.2:2(B)(1). The DSP must generally process each dealer's background check request "during the dealer's call [to the DSP], or by return call without delay." Section 18.2-308.2:2(B)(2). Virginia law provides that most background checks must be processed by the end of the following business day, or the dealer is free to complete the transfer. Id. A Virginia administrative regulation requires a dealer who processes a transfer because he or she has not received a response from the DSP by the end of the dealer's next business day, to notify DSP of the transfer by telephone. 19 Va. Admin. Code § 30-100-10(A). Non-residents seeking to purchase a handgun are treated differently, and the DSP is allowed up to 10 days to process background checks in those situations. Va. Code Ann. § 18.2-308.2:2(C).

The DSP generally may not maintain dealer background check records longer than 30 days from any request "pertaining to a buyer or transferee who is not found to be prohibited from possessing and transporting a firearm under state or federal law." Section 18.2-308.2:2(B)(3). However, records of multiple handgun transactions shall be maintained for twelve months, and the log on all background check requests (which consists of the name of the purchaser, the dealer identification number, the unique approval number and the transaction date), may be maintained for twelve months. Id. A dealer who requests a background check in connection with an intended sale or transfer of a handgun, which indicates the prospective purchaser or transferee is not a prohibited purchaser, but who nonetheless determines that the sale or transfer will not be completed, must notify the DSP by telephone. 19 Va. Admin. Code § 30-100-10(B). See 6 Va. Admin. Code §§ 20-130-10—20-130-100, and 19 Va. Admin. Code §§ 30-100-10—30-100-110 for additional information regarding the procedures used to perform background checks in Virginia.

Firearm transfers by private sellers (non-firearms dealers) are not subject to background checks, although federal and state purchaser prohibitions still apply.
Posted by: halfded

- 03/24/10 11:04 AM

Wow, I guess there is no record..after a time anyway. :shock:

I guess that would be a lot of paperwork and stuff to keep up with.

But...they just don't know who has what?

If anyone cares to expand the conversation on this topic or feels apt enough to explain it in plain English I'm all ears. A lot of the legal jargon and such is lost on me.

Always like to learn something new.
Posted by: idiq

- 03/26/10 01:49 PM

I recently bought a handgun through my FFL but realized that when showing my VA DRL it is ILLEGAL for me to purchase it if my VA DRL was issued within 30 days, either a first-time DRL or a DUP. The exception being if you have a letter from DMV stating that you've had a VA DRL for > 30 days (in my case DMV provided me with a letter as I just needed a DUP). I remember reading this on the VSP website, but can't find it now. This is important for people out of state coming in, going straight to the DMV and getting a DRL to make a transaction.

As far as records go, I recently was in Finland and in order to get my shooting permit there, they required proof that I owned the firearm in the US. The easiest form to show this was my approved SP65. The dealer I purchased the firearm from told me to contact VSP as he sends them there - VSP told me that since it had been > 30 days, they DESTROY SP65s - shred the documents and purge computer records. After that, it is the dealer you purchased from that you have to obtain them from. I forget the exact period, but the dealer is required to hold it for (I believe) a number of years.

Lastly, forums and websites cost money to run. Bandwidth needs to be paid, and every year so does the domain names. I don't see why we should be excited to evoke what is known as the free rider problem in economics... The only thing allowing out of state transactions seems to be putting us as individual sellers at risk and possibly even site maintainers at risk. If they want to buy or sell from another state so badly, let them go to GunBroker or GunsAmerica and hunt for what they want.

In the case of deception, I would just be sure to check for a VA DRL and make sure it hasn't been issued in the past 30 days. CCP preferred as well. I suppose someone could go around to different states getting different DRLs and waiting, but I'm sure if it came down to that the court would be in our favor...

Isn't there a way to restrict IP-addresses from outside VA from accessing the website?
Posted by: ATFmy3favs

- 03/31/10 06:26 PM

[user=7501]idiq[/user] wrote:
:

Isn't there a way to restrict IP-addresses from outside VA from accessing the website?


Why?

We have a section for out of state folks to do sell here. They can also buy from those that choose to do the extra stuff required.

It is welcomed by the site and a lot of its members, including me. laugh
Posted by: num1fordfan

- 03/31/10 10:27 PM

also  remember  we have alot of military in va   if these guys  are in va and  a memeber of this  site    they shouldnt be punished  if the military  makes them move  out of state
Posted by: NativeWVian

- 04/02/10 09:45 PM

:

In the case of deception, I would just be sure to check for a VA DRL and make sure it hasn't been issued in the past 30 days. CCP preferred as well. I suppose someone could go around to different states getting different DRLs and waiting, but I'm sure if it came down to that the court would be in our favor...



I've changed states twice, and both times I was required to relinquish my old license.  Perhaps you could do the learner's permit process like you were starting from scratch, but most states' driver records are linked through the National Driver Register.

Two years ago, I lost my VA license on a trip to Puerto Rico, and had to fly back from a layover in Charlotte on less than an hour's notice to Dulles to go sit at the DMV.  (That was not very fun, and $700, but my company paid me back.)  I had to swear on the form that my original was lost or destroyed.

Moral of the story:  there is no easy way that I know of to have more than one driver's license, short of forgery or perjury.

Correct me if I'm wrong.  Dave

EDIT:  I'm not saying it can't be done, but it's not likely that someone who just wants to buy a nice gun would go through with it.  If they did, they'd have many more charges in court than just an "illegal" gun possesion.

Posted by: 3gunShooter

- 04/03/10 12:43 PM

I am sure the answer is NO, but won't know for sure until I ask.  So here goes...

I am a resident of VA since February 1st, 2010.  I still maintain my FL drivers license and CCW permit because I save $$$ to wait until my vehicle registration comes close to expiration before I change everything over to VA.  Looks like another 8 months before I do that.  FL is a long way to go to pick up gun purchases.

Down side to waiting to get a VA DL is that I am unable to purchase any gun from a FFL dealer because of the lack of a VA DL.  But does that disqualify me as well doing a private purchase/sale on here when I produce a mortgage documents / any kind of bill with my VA address?  Trust me, when it comes to guns, I am by the book, and don't even want to go into any grey area...just want to know if it is legal or if I have to wait.

Off topic question...Does an out of state CCW permit transfer to a VA CCW permit with little delay, or do I have to wait the normal 4-8 of non-gun toting weeks before I get a VA license?

I thank anyone/everyone for your response.  
Posted by: ATFmy3favs

- 04/03/10 01:19 PM

[user=10628]3gunShooter[/user] wrote:
:

Off topic question...Does an out of state CCW permit transfer to a VA CCW permit with little delay, or do I have to wait the normal 4-8 of non-gun toting weeks before I get a VA license?

I thank anyone/everyone for your response.  


Welcome to VA and vaguntrader. There are a few sites that explain the reciprocity of a conceal carry permit. You happen to now live in a state that honors 27 other states ccp Florida being one of them. http://www.handgunlaw.us/states/virginia.pdf

Not sure how it is with an out of state ccp holder but in Va you do not have to tell the officer you have one. I do just because I know that as soon as they pull up my Drivers License information they will see it anyway and I am a firm believer in being up front with them as I would want the same done for me. Others may disagree.

With regards to your question about purchasing a gun here without a Va drivers license. I don't know the law regarding this when it comes to private sales so I don't want to mislead you. My understanding of the law is you both must be a resident of the state of Virginia. It doesnt say how you prove it. I would think a recent piece of mail and a mortgage document, vehicle registration, or current paycheck would suffice for some and others may choose not to accept any of these. Personally, if you showed me your FL ccp, a piece of recent mail and any one of the other items I listed, I would be OK with it. But I can't speak for everyone on here.
Posted by: 3gunShooter

- 04/04/10 01:42 PM

Thanks for the reply, ATFmy3favs.
Posted by: Dieselgrin

- 04/07/10 10:19 PM

Does anyone know what is the law regarding "giving" firearms (as in Christmas presents) to relatives (adult children) that live in other states? Once deceased, they would get all of them anyway as heirs to the estate.
Posted by: bsalz

- 04/08/10 05:05 PM

Dieselgrin,

I think I can somewhat answer your question. My grandfather passed away last year. He lived in Alabama and owned a small Beretta. I am obviously here in VA. I didn't even know he had a gun, and he didn't "will" it to me. My grandmother decided that she didn't want it and thought my grandfather would have wanted me to have it. She gave it to my mother, who was visiting from Florida. Mom brought the gun back to FL with her last month. She shipped it to me here in VA through a local FFL (I'm in Lynchburg). FFL did a background check ($2), didn't even charge me a transfer fee.

I say all that to say, nobody needs to be "notified" that the gun has changed hands. If I would have been able to visit my grandmother sooner, she would have just given me the gun in person and I would have brought it back to VA. I don't even know where my grandfather got the gun, or when he got it.

When I was making the arrangements to get the gun, I called a local NRA instructor, spoke with a local FFL, and called Fedex to make sure I was not doing anything wrong. Told them exactly what was going on, grandfather passed and grams wanted to give me a gun, Mom had it and was shipping to FL, have no idea where the gun originated. Note that this was all done with a handgun, not a long gun.

As far as legal concerns go, I guess your main concern is how you are getting the guns to the people you want to give them to.

Just my experience, if someone knows better than me I'm all ears.
Posted by: bsalz

- 04/09/10 12:58 PM

Diesel,

to add on to my reply yesterday. I think it goes without saying, but I will say it. If one of the relatives you want to "gift" the gun to is a person that for whatever reason would not legally be allowed to purcahse a gun on their won, you should not give it to them.  Like in my case, if my grandmother knew I was a convicted felon, gifting me a handgun would have been a no no.

Also, and goes without saying again, but since you said they were "in other states", you would want to know what their states laws are concerning the type of gun you want to give them (like if they lived in NY or Cali).
Posted by: bsalz

- 04/09/10 12:59 PM

and I am NOT a convicted felon, was just giving a hypothetical situation...
Posted by: n664dc

- 04/11/10 10:29 PM

Here's a fun fact: It's not illegal for a felon to own a gun. Only possession is prohibited.
Posted by: ibemanson

- 04/21/10 03:28 PM


Posted by: bustedknee

- 06/11/10 01:26 AM

I find it interesting that a felon in possession of a firearm (illegal, btw) does not have to disclose it to an officer because he is protected by the laws of Self Incrimination.

However, many states require folks with carry permits to inform the officer.

How warped is that?
Posted by: nova

- 06/13/10 10:20 AM

[user=8960]bustedknee[/user] wrote:
:
I find it interesting that a felon in possession of a firearm (illegal, btw) does not have to disclose it to an officer because he is protected by the laws of Self Incrimination.

However, many states require folks with carry permits to inform the officer.

How warped is that?

It would still be illegal to lie to the officer.
Posted by: Anonymous

- 06/27/10 01:37 AM

About felons owning versus possessing firearms...I remember G. Gordon Liddy saying all the firearms throughout his house were his wife's....he said he didn't and couldn't own a firearm.

I imagine if Liddy was sitting in a chair with a firearm on the table beside him and a police officer asked him to hand him the gun to look at Liddy probably would have declined and told the officer he would have to pick it up himself.
Posted by: The Joker

- 08/18/10 08:56 PM

correct if if im wrong but i believe in the state of va no firearm is ever registered unless it is a machine gun. even when you purchase it from a FFL it is not registered unless it is a machine gun. please correct me if i am wrong
Posted by: n664dc

- 08/19/10 10:25 AM

[user=16654]The Joker[/user] wrote:
:
correct if if im wrong but i believe in the state of va no firearm is ever registered unless it is a machine gun. even when you purchase it from a FFL it is not registered unless it is a machine gun. please correct me if i am wrong
That's correct.  However, you can bet the ATF has a database of FFL transactions, even if they won't acknowledge it.
Posted by: bustedknee

- 08/19/10 12:38 PM

The feds claim they do not keep a record of sales.  Yeah, right!  Maybe before computers.

However, if you believe their claim, consider this:  They do openly require FFL's to make a record of all transactions (buy, sale, trade, repair, & pawn) in a bound book, then keep it and keep it, and keep it, until they go out of business. 

At that point, they require the dealer's records (bound book) to be turned-in to the government.  Those records are then entered into a data base as "Closed Dealers".  They have admitted to this practice.

So, there is a record of all guns purchased, via a dealer.  It is a brilliant government trick to let dealers maintain their registration records for them. Pretty smart, huh?

If the ATF was above board with us, they would let dealers destroy their transaction records after a period of time, instead of maintaining those records forever then turning them in when the business closes.  (I worked for the government for almost 35 years and we were required to destroy many of our records after just 2 years.  No record - no liability!)

Note: the ATF form 473 may be destroyed after 20 years but not the bound book.  The Government is not lying when they say they do not keep the 4473 forms.

Ever wonder why they do not tolerate even the tiniest bit of  sloppy record keeping by a dealer?  Ever seen a dealer that didn't jump like a shot-at-rabbit when the voice on the phone said, "This is Agent Hitler with the ATF."?  

Think about this:   If that 4473 form/bound book is not registration, why does it require all that information about the gun?  Just do the background check then let me pick out whichever gun I want.
Posted by: n664dc

- 08/19/10 03:51 PM

[user=8960]bustedknee[/user] wrote:
:
Think about this:   If that 4473 form/bound book is not registration, why does it require all that information about the gun?  Just do the background check then let me pick out whichever gun I want.

Indeed. No need for a make model and serial number for a background check.
Posted by: The Joker

- 08/20/10 05:20 PM

ok good point but ever think maybe the serial number and model is for which one they sold to notify the manufactorer incase of warrenty claims?  or for inventory purposes. but i see where you are coming from thanks for the help
Posted by: n664dc

- 08/20/10 08:56 PM

None of that information would need to go on a government form. They don't need to handle warranty stuff anyway. That get's taken up with the manufacturer.
Posted by: idiq

- 08/23/10 11:46 AM

I was in Finland and brought my Five-Seven with me. In order to grant me a Finnish temporary permit for the firearm, they needed proof I was able to legally own it - so I had to talk to my FFL about receiving a copy of my SP65 showing an approved transaction and cleared background check.

He referred me to the VSP - who openly admitted to me that the maintain copies of the SP65, but claim after 30 days it is deleted from their database and then one has to obtain the SP65 directly from the FFL that the firearm was purchased from.

So I think that while it might not be "registered" if it's not a machine gun, there is certainly a record of the firearm being tied to your name and serial number that has at least entered a VSP database, and maybe it was removed.

Not to go OT on ya, but thought that might be helpful.
Posted by: Chisel Monkey

Re: - 09/15/10 12:26 PM

When you buy from a FFL, you better believe the ATF has a record of it that is maintained for an indefinate period.

Not really sure why everyone is saying that VA doesn't register firearms...what difference does it make when the ATF is?

As far as what proof of residency, non felon status etc., you may require to sell to someone, that is personal preference as far as I know. You just can't knowingly sell to someone that is not allowed by law top possess a firearm.
Posted by: mascdm

Re: Required ID for intrastate VA transactions - 10/19/10 11:11 AM

I know this thread is pretty old, but I'd like to offer some observations about FTF intrastate VA transfer ID requirements.

I'm noticing a lot of Sellers REQUIRING a VA Driver's License. While it's the Sellers option to require whatever he may want, my point is that 1), it's not necessary or a legal requirement; and 2) it limits the LEGAL market to the potential seller.

I am a resident of VA, but I'm also a resident of an other state (not at my choosing in fact). My Driver's License is NOT a VA DL for several reasons: one, I'd have to surrender my current license and two, my vehicle registrations are cheaper and currently registered in the other state.

I DO hold a VA CHP, which gets me to my point. If someone has a Resident VA CHP (as opposed to a non-resident CHP), this document - along with a government issued photo ID (such as a Passport or state Driver's License, etc.) should be all that is necessary to document that the Buyer is entitled to a FTF firearm transfer (other than Class III) with a VA resident Buyer. There is no legal reason why I should not be able to show up in an out of state registered vehicle, with out of state driver's license, and make a FTF firearm transaction with another resident of VA (though I might feel better by seeing his CHP).

BTW, I also continue to vote in the other state, so I don't hold a VA Voter Registration document currently either. Why? Because I still have friends in government in the other state and continue to support them (they have excellent 2A voting records at both state and federal officeholder levels).

Now, there is nothing on my CHP that distinguishes that it is either a resident or non-resident form, BUT is has my full name and my Virginia address, along with physical description. This permit PROVES that the holder has been vetted by the VA State Police and that the holder is technically a resident for VA firearm law purposes and legally entitled to purchase and own (non Class III) firearms).

HOWEVER, if I were to go to a VA FFL to buy a firearm, the FFL is bound not just by VA law, but Federal law as well. My driver's license IS required for transactions with an FFL and the FFL is bound to honor the state firearms laws for that jurisdiction.

I am looking into getting a VA Identification Card issued by VADMV because, as I read the FFL requirements, the FFL actually is required to see a "state issued form of ID" or something like that, not necessarily a Driver's License. I suspect though that I would have trouble explaining this nuance to most FFLs, if I could go back and find the actual regulation.

On an unrelated note: Congress tried a long time to pass a "national ID" law and failed every time (remember when privacy existed?). So the feds have reverted to tying federal transportation dollars to state driver's license details, format, and databases. All but a few states have gone along to get the bucks which is why so many require you to surrender your license when you move (also for traffic violator scofflaws) and why they have become standardized. You aren't even allowed to smile for your picture so that the facial recognition software works better when they want to find you. Even insurance companies are co-conspirators. Every few months I get notices from my VA insurance underwriter telling me I am required to get a VA DL, now that I live in VA. So, if I did that, my other state insurance company would undoubtedly find out I no longer had my DL there and start harassing me.

Sorry for the long post, but identification, privacy, state vs. federal law, and the 2A in general get my goat.
Posted by: VAMan

Re: Required ID for intrastate VA transactions - 10/20/10 11:30 AM

I don't think you can have two residences can you? Just like, we own two houses. Each is in a different county, yet we can only get a chp's from the county that we reside in. If someone didn't have a VA drivers license, I wouldn't sell to them, and I think a lot of people feel this way. I'm not 100% sure what the laws on this are, but it's not worth taking any chances for most people, and I think if your drivers license is from the other state that's supposed to be your primary residence.
Posted by: mascdm

Re: Required ID for intrastate VA transactions - 10/20/10 12:17 PM

It isn't an issue of "primary residence" it's an issue of whether you have a residence (and pay taxes, presumably) in VA. If you read the regs it makes it clear and provides quite a bit of detail. For example some people have hunting properties and/or simply a summer and winter residence and the regs are designed to accommodate that. I did quite a bit of research on it. After all, we talk about rights, liberties, and freedoms, I'd say that is involved here.

Besides why else would I be able to have a resident VA CHP? I do and I am BUT I don't have a VA driver's license. If it's good enough for VA, why shouldn't it be good enough for FTF transactions here?

And I KNOW a lot of people WON'T sell to others without a VA DL but my points are that it's not illegal and the DL is meaningless when compared to the CHP, which establishes the VA residency and police and judge vetting.

There are two legal prerequisites for a private sale in VA...one is confirm the identity with A government form of photo ID (a passport for example or a state DL)...the other is to confirm the person is a VA resident (EITHER a VA DL OR a VA CHP). The VA CHP has all the info necessary to confirm residency in VA. The CHP also indicates the person was vetted for criminal activity by the VSP and has had firearms training.

Now, I am surprised that the VA CHP isn't a photo ID, but hey, that's VA's business.

But one thing I HAVE NOT seen much talk about is making sure the firearm hasn't been used in a crime or stolen. To some extent a Bill of Sale properly executed with the proper ID and residence verification offers SOME protection to the buyer BUT IMO there should be a way to EASILY access and use the governmental databases to verify the serial number hasn't been reported in a crime or theft.

Now let's think about the 2A. If we truly believe that the Constitution grants us all the right to own firearms (let's say non-criminals) why should we be putting up extra roadblocks as citizens to help the government take away that right? Bloomberg is coming down to VA gun shows with NY residents breaking the law to try and make FFLs paranoid and to get VA government to shut the shows down.

There is every reason to follow VA law and verify residence and identification. And, since VA is a "must issue" state, it is extremely easy to have a CHP issued (at least at the moment), so I can't see why anyone on this site should not have one. But as far as requiring a VA driver's license for the transaction, it's not a legal requirement and it simply limits the population of legally entitled purchasers from the sale (and limits the buyer's 2A rights, not by government, ironically, but by an arbitrary self-imposed bureaucracy).

Why are there only 35,000 Class 3 firearms available to law-abiding citizens making them scarce and expensive? AR-15: $650. M-16 with NFA documentation $15,000. M-60 or Tommy Gun $30,000. Criminal with AR-15 modified with autoseer $2,000. Answer: because government wants to know (the law-abiding citizen) who has them and they grandfathered those who had them at the time of the law. When it wants to outlaw them altogether, it knows where to find the law-abiding citizens who own them.
Posted by: robwilliams_98

Re: Required ID for intrastate VA transactions - 12/29/10 11:46 AM

I'm not a Virginia resident, but I live on the border with Virginia and work in Virginia. I've seen a lot of incorrect and mis-information in these forums regarding VA & federal firearms laws.

Its perfectly legal for non-VA residents to purchase rifles and shotguns in VA, just not handguns. I've purchased long guns at VA gun shows without any problems, but I've run across several members in these forums who have a rifle or shotgun I'm interested in, but who are not familiar with gun laws. BTW, I'm perfectly fine with people who know the law, but who choose to apply additional conditions (CHP, CCW) for their own personal reasons, I'm just frustrated by individuals who don't know the law.

Here's the information straight from the Virginia State Police Website (http://www.vsp.state.va.us/Firearms_VFTP.shtm). I've only shown the information that applies to non-VA residents. Check the link for the complete section.


Identification and Residency Requirements

A primary and secondary form of identification must be presented to the firearms dealer at the time of purchase of any firearm except an antique weapon, or replica of an antique weapon.

Primary Identification. The primary form of ID for a non-Virginia resident, for the purchase of a rifle or shotgun, must consist of a valid photo-ID issued by a governmental agency of the prospective purchasers home state that denote the purchasers name, race, sex, date of birth and address. Federal law prohibits the sale or transfer of a handgun to a nonresident of the state in which the handgun is being purchased.

Secondary Identification. The secondary form of identification, for Virginia residents and residents of other states, must show an address identical to that shown on the primary form of identification. Some acceptable forms of secondary ID are:

* a current lease,
* evidence of currently paid personal property tax or real estate tax,
* a current utility or telephone bill,
* a current voter registration card,
* a current bank check,
* a current passport,
* a current automobile registration and
* current hunting or fishing license.

Transfer of an Assault Firearm

Proof of citizenship, or of lawful admission for a permanent residence, must be established prior to the purchase of an "assault firearm." An assault firearm is defined as any semi-automatic center-fire rifle or pistol that expels single or multiple projectiles by action of an explosion of a combustible material and is equipped at the time of offence with a magazine which will hold more than 20 rounds of ammunition or designed by the manufacturer to accommodate a silencer or equipped with a folding stock.

One of the following forms of proof of citizenship or lawful residence, pursuant to 18.2-308.2 must be presented to purchase an assault firearm:

* a certified birth certificate or certificate of birth abroad issued by the US State Department,
* an un-expired US Passport,
* a U. S. citizen identification card,
* a current voter registration card,
* a current selective service registration card,
* an immigrant or registration card issued by the Immigration and Naturalization Service, and
* a certificate of citizenship or a certificate of naturalization issued by the Immigration and Naturalization Service.
Posted by: mascdm

Re: Required ID for intrastate VA transactions - 01/16/11 12:31 PM

The information from previous poster is correct, but not on point with this subject. The quoted text applies to licensed firearms dealers, not intrastate (VA-VA) private transactions. Also the poster is discussing intrastate transactions which also doesn't apply to this subject.

Here is the text from the VA State Police FAQ site that does apply to FTF, intra-VA private transactions (note the question is specific to HANDGUN transactions, BUT the answer addresses FIREARMS). One must "drill much deeper" to determine the definition of "resident" which goes to the topic of "Required ID":

"What are the laws concerning the private sale of a handgun?

To privately sell a firearm, it is recommended that you safeguard information pertaining to the transaction such as the date the firearm was sold, the complete name and address of the buyer, and the make, model, and serial number of the firearm. The seller and buyer of a handgun must be a resident of the state in which the transfer occurs. Additionally, Virginias handgun purchase limitation applies in private transactions. Refer to http://www.vsp.state.va.us/Firearms_MultiplePurchase.shtm for additional information on multiple handgun purchases. Should the firearm ever be located at a crime scene, trace of the firearm will determine the licensed dealer who last sold the firearm and will identify the last buyer of the firearm. To have your name removed from this process, you may consider placing your firearm on consignment with a licensed dealer. This will also ensure that the firearm is transferred only to a lawfully eligible individual."

SOURCE: http://www.vsp.state.va.us/CJIS.shtm#FAQ

The one area I like the most about this "advice" given in the FAQ reply has to do with "use of firearm in a crime". This is an area not mentioned (or not mentioned enough) in this Forum. I would think we would ALL be much more concerned with IF - as buyers - we were being sold a firearm that might have been used previously in a crime. Buying from an FFL SHOULD provide a buyer with a chain of ownership and some assurance the firearm is "clean." Private sales on the other hand put a lot more liability on the buyer with regard to previous owners and previous (illegal) uses to which it might have been put.

In my opinion there should be an easy way for a buyer to contact a state or federal agency and verify by make, type, and serial number, that a particular firearm had not been reported used in a crime and/or reported lost or stolen. If such an easy method is available, I'd like to hear about it.

mascdm
Posted by: ATFPSF

Re: Required ID for intrastate VA transactions - 01/30/11 05:41 PM

Howdy from Wyoming,

first let me state that I'm a former and current "Reserve" Deputy Sheriff. I've served over 15 years in the Military and have over 52 months serving in Iraq as a DOD civilian and DOD contractor. I purchase many firearms from various forums and it certainly is your prerogative to choose to do business with whomever you choose, as long as the business is conducted legally.

I buy firearms I want and in all my years have only re-sold 3. In December I purchased a Wilson KZ 45 Compact from a Cabelas in your great State of Virginia, (from their FFL to my local FFL) no hiccups, no issues.

The only way to check a firearm is to take the serial number to your local LE and have them run the information through NCIC and even that doesn't guarantee the firearm hasn't been used in any type of nefarious activity.

And on another note I just sent a Taurus to be repaired at the factory. No FFL involved, my insured FEDEX to them and back the same way.
Posted by: mascdm

Re: Required ID for intrastate VA transactions - 01/09/12 08:21 PM

ATPSFS, I agree about your points.

BUT I wish civilians had an easier ability to use the NCIS when purchasing firearms. It makes no sense to make it available only to LE personnel IMHO.
Posted by: Immortal Arms

Re: Required ID for intrastate VA transactions - 04/23/12 10:28 PM

Q: To whom may an unlicensed person transfer firearms under the GCA?

A person may sell a firearm to an unlicensed resident of his State, if he does not know or have reasonable cause to believe the person is prohibited from receiving or possessing firearms under Federal law. A person may loan or rent a firearm to a resident of any State for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes, if he does not know or have reasonable cause to believe the person is prohibited from receiving or possessing firearms under Federal law. A person may sell or transfer a firearm to a licensee in any State. However, a firearm other than a curio or relic may not be transferred interstate to a licensed collector.

[18 U.S.C. 922(a)(3) and (5), 922(d), 27 CFR 478.29 and 478.30]
Q: From whom may an unlicensed person acquire a firearm under the GCA?

A person may only acquire a firearm within the persons own State, except that he or she may purchase or otherwise acquire a rifle or shotgun, in person, at a licensees premises in any State, provided the sale complies with State laws applicable in the State of sale and the State where the purchaser resides. A person may borrow or rent a firearm in any State for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes.

[18 U.S.C. 922(a)(3) and (5), 922(b)(3), 27 CFR 478.29 and 478.30]
Posted by: blueZ

Re: - 07/31/12 06:58 PM

I dont like the idea of stamping non VA ressdents with a "cannot buy from us" stamp.

A guy in my car forum (I think he is in TX) asked about a certain type of gun and it is FS here.
SO I sent him a link.

I want him to be able to join and buy the gun here.
If they must ship FFL to FFL so be it smile
Posted by: Wacko

Re: - 12/27/13 11:45 PM

after 14 1/2 years working for a lawenforcement agency you will find out that anything that goes into the computer DATA base never ever comes out. Just saying.
I once did a check on a guy in 2003 and awarrent for a parking ticket from 1972 came up as still on file. He worked every day right in the middle of town so you know he wasn't hiding. Don't believe everything you read or hear. It's just flagged so it doesn't show up on the instant or quick check but its there. Traced guns from the manufactor to the last person that bought it from an FFL dealer after 8 years. Have A Nice day and CYA
Posted by: theamerican

Re: - 01/22/14 05:33 PM

I have question about selling a firearm. If you are a military member stationed in Virginia but from another state can you legally sell a firearm in Virginia to a Virginia resident or service member to service member as well? I have read plenty about military being able to buy here but nothing on them selling. Might sound silly just want to make sure.
Posted by: rromeo

Re: - 01/22/14 06:51 PM

If you have permanent orders to Virginia, you're considered a resident as far as sales go. If it's temporary duty, then you cannot.
Posted by: vatopa

Re: - 06/13/14 03:12 PM

Under federal law, if you own real property in a state, you are resident of that state during the time you are staying at that property. This means If you live (resident - driver license) in Pa, but own a house in Va, you are federally considered a Va. resident during the time you are at the Va. house. This means Federally you can buy whatever you want while in either state. HOWEVER, Va law restricts handguns from being transferred to you, Also "other" such as an AR-15 stripped lower. They would all have to be shipped to an FFL in your home state. You can buy all the long guns you want in Va but they must go through an FFL.

This is my understanding, and not to be considered anything but.
Posted by: MP3Mogul

Re: - 06/14/14 01:06 PM

The other person that responded is correct. If you are in the military on permanent orders, you are considered a virginia resident by law.
Posted by: Travis#

Re: - 09/26/14 05:24 PM

This is probably a dumb question but am going to ask anyway. I am looking at making a trade no cash involved from a resident in louisianna. He will be driving through the state in a month or two. We would like to both handle the revolvers that we are trading for. Since there is no cash just an even swap, do we still need to meet at an FFL to do the trade?
Posted by: rromeo

Re: - 09/27/14 04:43 PM

Yes. He will need to have his revolver shipped back to an FFL in Louisiana.
For you, you meet an a local FFL to do the paperwork on your revolver, and you take it home with you.
Posted by: Travis#

Re: - 09/29/14 06:18 PM

Thanks RRomeo that's what I thought, just wanted to make sure.
Posted by: dalek

Re: - 10/19/14 07:54 PM

Let me add to the mess as I am one of those evil foreigners (i.e. live in NC):

Antique and BP weapons do not seem to be seen as firearms by the fed, so they can be shipped through USPS all day. Now, I can see where a 1851 Colt or a Martini-Henry or a Vetterli fall into that, but what about stuff like a Nagant rifle or a 1895 Revolver? Where would they fall? Gut feeling is they are not antique since they were made for a while (WW2), but so is the case of a reproduction 1851 Colt. Or a Mauser C96?

The second thing I do not understand is when a rifle can be shipped (FedEx) directly to a person and when it has to go to a FFL. Am I am not talking just about person to person in the same state. The example I have is that I am getting a M1 Garand from the civilian marksmanship program: it is being shipped to my home. How?
Posted by: rromeo

Re: - 10/19/14 08:28 PM

If it is truly an antique that was made in or before 1898, then it is not a firearm. So if you have a Nagant revolver that was made in 1899, then it can not be mailed except by a licensed firearms dealer. The same goes with your Marlin 1893, or Colt Single Action Army, or whatever. Now, if it's a reproduction that does not fire a fixed cartridge, then it is still classified the same as an antique. The 1851 Colt reproduction presumably uses cap and ball, so it's fine.
CMP has some exemption for send firearms directly to citizens. The only other time I can think of when you can receive a firearm that you didn't already own is when it's from a will.
Posted by: Mxzane933

Re: - 01/16/15 12:15 AM

so if someone wants to buy a gun i posted on a forum and they are from texas or colorodo or wyoming, do you have to get a ffl to ship to another ffl is the way im reading this?
Posted by: Sfach

Re: - 01/16/15 05:25 AM

In my experience,

For a private citizen to ship a pistol it has to be sent to an FFL via FEDEX or UPS with a copy of your DL . I shipped to a Manufacturer for repairs. Funny thing..they just UPSd it back after the repair.

For a private citizen to ship a rifle, it can be done via Registered Mail to an FFL. With a copy of your DL, I had a FFL send a copy of his FFL to include in the package.

No matter how y0u slice it, the shipping of a firearm out of state requires it to be received by an FFL who accepts from individuals(many choose not). With a copy of your DL.
Posted by: 1911noob

Re: - 10/02/16 08:50 AM

So in order to save me the time it would take to read and try to interpret the legal mumbo jumbo featured above, I was hoping I could just ask a simple question and get a simple answer.

There is an NC resident who wants to trade me a high end optic for a Daniel Defense rifle. What are the legal implications here?
Posted by: FrostyEOD

Re: - 10/02/16 09:12 AM

Rifle has to transfer through an FFL. As a VA resident you cannot transfer except to another VA resident legally.

You can use an FFL in VA, or ship it to an FFL in NC. Best bet is have your FFL ship it to his FFL.
Posted by: Mobjack118

Re: Required ID for intrastate VA transactions - 10/16/16 08:58 PM

I think for purposes of the Federal Statute you are NOT a Virginia resident for legal purposes, even if you reside/live in Virginia. I also think that for purposes of Virginia state law you are not a legal resident of the Commonwealth of Virginia. You are legally the resident of the state where you are registered to vote and that issued your DL. I may be wrong, but were I you, I would consult a very knowledgeable attorney before I would purchase a handgun from a private individual in Virginia.
Posted by: a1te

Re: - 10/21/16 06:16 AM

U have to use a va ffl to ship to nc ffl
Posted by: 6watcher

Re: Required ID for intrastate VA transactions - 10/24/16 08:45 PM

Deleted
Posted by: izymic

Re: Required ID for intrastate VA transactions - 07/13/17 08:54 AM

Originally Posted By: Mobjack118
I think for purposes of the Federal Statute you are NOT a Virginia resident for legal purposes, even if you reside/live in Virginia. I also think that for purposes of Virginia state law you are not a legal resident of the Commonwealth of Virginia. You are legally the resident of the state where you are registered to vote and that issued your DL. I may be wrong, but were I you, I would consult a very knowledgeable attorney before I would purchase a handgun from a private individual in Virginia.


You can be a dual-state resident.



https://www.atf.gov/firearms/docs/ruling/2010-6-state-residence/download

Quote:
ATF has previously addressed the eligibility of individuals to acquire firearms who maintain residences in more than one State. Federal regulations at 27 CFR 478.11 (definition of State of Residence), Example 2, clarify that a U.S. citizen with homes in two States may, during the period of time the person actually resides in a particular State, purchase a firearm in that State. See also ATF Publication 5300.4 (2005), Question and Answer B12, page 179. Similarly, in ATF Ruling 80-21 (ATFB 1980-4, 25), ATF held that, during the time college students actually reside in a college dormitory or at an offcampus location, they are considered residents of the State where the on-campus or offcampus housing is located.


The issue is where you are sleeping. Not where you are registered to vote. IF you are sleeping in state A for a significant period (even a limited period) and that is your residence for that period, (such as a college student living in offcampus housing as above).

Have two addresses in two states does not qualify. You must actually reside in each of them for some significant period during the year, to the exclusion of the other.

However, to be very clear, you are NEVER a dual-state resident of two states AT THE SAME TIME. The term "dual state resident" is misleading. It should be "part year resident of 2 or more states." You cannot claim residency in two states simultaneously.

One test: If you are a part year resident of two states, and you have work income, do you file a tax return in each state as a part year resident? (Not every state requires a tax return to be filed, but many do). If not, then you are not a "dual state resident."
Posted by: dnunn

Re: Required ID for intrastate VA transactions - 05/24/18 11:04 AM

What about selling a firearm to military personnel stationed in VA? Are they considered to be Va residents? And, is a copy of their military orders acceptable verfication?

Thanks
Posted by: dnunn

Re: Required ID for intrastate VA transactions - 05/24/18 12:54 PM

Here's what I found on Va State Police website:

Military Personnel

Active military personnel permanently stationed in Virginia, including the Pentagon, are treated as Virginia residents for the purchase of a handgun. Identification and residency are established by a military photo-identification card issued by the United States Department of Defense and proof that Virginia is the permanent duty station via current military assignment orders or the purchaser's Leave and Earnings Statement.