ATF’s new rule makes just about everything with a pistol brace a short barreled rifle!

Posted by: jr45

ATF’s new rule makes just about everything with a pistol brace a short barreled rifle! - 01/14/23 09:15 AM

Should be no surprise that Biden’s ATF will try make felons out of millions! You have a 120 days to comply or else…
Pistol brace rule
Posted by: Agent19

Re: ATF’s new rule makes just about everything with a pistol brace a short barreled rifle! - 01/14/23 09:39 AM

^^

https://youtu.be/yOZ_6XC51CI
Posted by: buckeye_guy

Re: ATF’s new rule makes just about everything with a pistol brace a short barreled rifle! - 01/14/23 09:57 AM

I will wager suits will tie this up in short order, and courts will place a Stay on any action by ATF.

I suspect any processing of paperwork submitted for the "free" tax stamp will also be placed on hold.

In the end this will most likely be ruled overreach by the ATF, and all paperwork submitted can be held in a special database that can skirt the restrictions called out in the Firearms Owners Protection Act against maintaining Central Databases at Federal, State, or Local levels.

I am not a lawyer and this is not legal advice.
Posted by: buckeye_guy

Re: ATF’s new rule makes just about everything with a pistol brace a short barreled rifle! - 01/14/23 10:24 AM

What are personal guesses concerning the prices of braced weapons and bare braces (skyrocket or bottom drop out):
* Before stay of action
* While tied up in Court while different State and Federal courts rule differently

Just curious. My guess both. Some will speculate and ask outrageous prices, some will panic and want to sell.
Posted by: Agent19

Re: ATF’s new rule makes just about everything with a pistol brace a short barreled rifle! - 01/14/23 12:44 PM

Lol, forfeit or destroy.
Remove is way easier,cheaper and allows the option to reattach when BATFE loses in court.


Let the panic selling begin.
It's a" buyers market".



https://youtu.be/-yXsgtkOed4
Posted by: buckeye_guy

Re: ATF’s new rule makes just about everything with a pistol brace a short barreled rifle! - 01/15/23 12:55 PM

I suspect selling will occur, standard prices at first (but how many are going to buy if they have to register and/or remove braces), then as deadlines nears prices will plummet in the panic selling scenario.

Unfortunately I am currently selling stuff to help fund purchase of a piece of property.
Posted by: Agent19

Re: ATF’s new rule makes just about everything with a pistol brace a short barreled rifle! - 01/15/23 01:50 PM

https://youtu.be/bocTwx0_4J4


https://youtu.be/WnvPdE75qZs


Excellent videos.
Posted by: buckeye_guy

Re: ATF’s new rule makes just about everything with a pistol brace a short barreled rifle! - 01/15/23 09:56 PM

Yep both good videos - thanks.

I had already viewed the 2nd (Wash Gun. . ) and seen the first presenter's video from the previous day (when the "rule" dropped).

I have been following the brace topic pretty close. I went thru the whole process to get a business license, build prototype brace, patent the prototype brace, and submit brace to the ATF with brace attached to gain a letter (similar to letters that come with other braces when you buy them).

The whole accessory attached to a firearm was a requirement after ATF sitting on everyone's devices before returning them all at the same time (that was about a year to get to that stage).



I have a prototype brace attached to a handgun that the ATF has had for roughly 4 years now . . . . with zero response (other than we have it). Not even our Fed Govt is this inefficient.
Posted by: Mark S

Re: ATF’s new rule makes just about everything with a pistol brace a short barreled rifle! - 01/16/23 01:23 PM

So, if I understand things as they currently stand

1. Wait until Apr to see if there is a 'stay' issued by a court
2. SBR it for 'free', as in $200, minus your freedom.
3. If less than 4lbs and between "12-24" you are ok, i.e. a Ruger 22 Charger.

Is there a list anywhere of possible 'pass' vs 'fail' firearms based on ATF rules?
Posted by: jr45

Re: ATF’s new rule makes just about everything with a pistol brace a short barreled rifle! - 01/17/23 11:54 AM

Some examples from the ATF site. Also, they are only offering a "forbearance" for the $200 tax..

Commercially available firearms equipped with a “stabilizing brace” that are short-barreled rifles
Common weapon platforms with attached “stabilizing brace” designs that are short-barreled rifles
Posted by: FreeBird101

Re: ATF’s new rule makes just about everything with a pistol brace a short barreled rifle! - 01/18/23 10:57 AM

So I wonder now since these are technically considered to be SBR'd from the factory (brace came with pistol)....will you need to engrave anything on the SBR since you're not the maker/changing anything on the firearm ?
Posted by: Agent19

Re: ATF’s new rule makes just about everything with a pistol brace a short barreled rifle! - 01/19/23 08:23 AM

1. ATF finally releases braced pistol regulation



NOTE: Be sure to read item #2, below, after reading this part.



ATF has pretty much said that pistols with braces are short-barreled rifles and need to be registered as an NFA item.



ATF Unveils Pistol Brace Rule Everything Is An SBR!

https://www.ammoland.com/2023/01/atf-unveils-pistol-brace-rule-everything-is-an-sbr/



-



ATF Final Rule: Stabilizer Brace Owners Have 120 Days to Register Them

https://www.breitbart.com/2nd-amendment/...-register-them/



-



ATF Ruling Explanation by Anthony - He is an Attorney

https://youtu.be/bocTwx0_4J4







VCDL Attorney Gilbert Ambler’s
Posted by: Agent19

Re: ATF’s new rule makes just about everything with a pistol brace a short barreled rifle! - 01/19/23 08:38 AM

Good read:
https://www.pewpewtactical.com/pistol-braces-and-the-atf/#toc3

Give a bit of history of the brace situation.
Posted by: noguns

Re: ATF’s new rule makes just about everything with a pistol brace a short barreled rifle! - 01/19/23 09:18 AM

Serious question and asking for a friend of course.
I have a 22lr “pistol” with a brace. I can’t find an available upper or barrel.
Could I just remove the brace and it would automatically be legal?
Could one also just remove an upper on a firearm in question and claim that it was “converted “ to a rifle, but I just currently do not have the upper? I mean in case an alphabet agency shows up at the friends door.
According the chart above that is an option, but when I skim through that 300 page pdf it kind of gives the GOV the ability to just identify whatever they see as an SBR.

Thanks! (For my friend )
Posted by: Agent19

Re: ATF’s new rule makes just about everything with a pistol brace a short barreled rifle! - 01/19/23 12:00 PM

https://youtu.be/ZdzClhoqTGY
Posted by: Agent19

Re: ATF’s new rule makes just about everything with a pistol brace a short barreled rifle! - 01/19/23 12:26 PM

https://youtu.be/owSVm67Wbfs

How to pin/welded.
Posted by: Agent19

Re: ATF’s new rule makes just about everything with a pistol brace a short barreled rifle! - 01/20/23 06:04 AM

Don't fall for amnesty trap.
https://youtu.be/DggOmUXxVWY
Posted by: HOTBRASS

Re: ATF’s new rule makes just about everything with a pistol brace a short barreled rifle! - 01/21/23 09:24 AM

If you register your braced firearm with the ATF to become a SBR/SBS and the $200 tax stamp is waived, does that mean you can put any stock on the firearm? Or does it have to remain a braced SBR/SBS?If you register your braced firearm with the ATF to become a SBR/SBS and the $200 tax stamp is waived, does that mean you can put any stock on the firearm? Or does it have to remain a braced SBR/SBS?
Posted by: jr45

Re: ATF’s new rule makes just about everything with a pistol brace a short barreled rifle! - 01/21/23 11:16 AM

If the firearm is registered as an SBR, see no reason why you could not put a stock on it.
Posted by: Agent19

Re: ATF’s new rule makes just about everything with a pistol brace a short barreled rifle! - 01/21/23 12:06 PM

https://vaguntrader.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/ubb/showflat/Number/1972801


https://vaguntrader.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/1971719


>>>Mods<<<

These threads should be merged.

smile
Posted by: Agent19

Re: ATF’s new rule makes just about everything with a pistol brace a short barreled rifle! - 01/23/23 02:31 PM

https://youtu.be/ocVVgRFw1oQ


Great video
Posted by: Agent19

Re: ATF’s new rule makes just about everything with a pistol brace a short barreled rifle! - 01/25/23 09:19 AM

https://youtu.be/iGdjQ4Iylzo

More info!
Posted by: Agent19

Re: ATF’s new rule makes just about everything with a pistol brace a short barreled rifle! - 01/25/23 11:30 AM

More info:

https://youtu.be/RxykIwtLaHM
Posted by: imaduckin

Re: ATF’s new rule makes just about everything with a pistol brace a short barreled rifle! - 01/26/23 07:18 AM

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/...7fd1b33ae0e5fd9
Posted by: twodents

Re: ATF’s new rule makes just about everything with a pistol brace a short barreled rifle! - 01/26/23 08:49 AM

While great, I don't think it'll go anywhere. At least they're trying but they won't have strong support. These need support from the top, and they don't have it.
Posted by: imaduckin

Re: ATF’s new rule makes just about everything with a pistol brace a short barreled rifle! - 01/26/23 10:26 AM

Originally Posted By: twodents
While great, I don't think it'll go anywhere. At least they're trying but they won't have strong support. These need support from the top, and they don't have it.

1 think some dont consider theres alot of folks in high places that have a stake in protecting their rights, im sure theres politicions and others in business that have under the table purchases that could be affected by new atf ruling and it would free up some nfa items also if they could get this tossed. call me clueless but its my opinion
Posted by: Mark S

Re: ATF’s new rule makes just about everything with a pistol brace a short barreled rifle! - 01/26/23 10:49 AM

Some questions:

1. If a firearm is more than 12" but less than 24", AND less than 4 pounds, would a brace then be 'OK' without it being an SBR?

2. If one were to simply remove the brace, a pistol is then just a pistol, correct?

3. Would even having a brace then make the pistol illegal if not attached?

4. Is there a good way to use a sling with an AR pistol that creates an alternative should want to avoid any further hassle?

I expect this will end up in court pretty quickly? Hopefully, we get a 'stay' and a court will decide on not just the rule itself, but that the ATF went beyond legal authority in making the rule.

In the meantime, what are at the possible work arounds.
Posted by: jr45

Re: ATF’s new rule makes just about everything with a pistol brace a short barreled rifle! - 01/26/23 03:50 PM

I'll make an attempt to answer.

"1. If a firearm is more than 12" but less than 24", AND less than 4 pounds, would a brace then be 'OK' without it being an SBR?"
-Don't believe it matters. ATF is no longer using worksheet 4999 and taking a stance that if it can be shouldered it's a SBR.

"2. If one were to simply remove the brace, a pistol is then just a pistol, correct?"
-The brace still must be permanently modified so it cannot be re-shouldered.

"3. Would even having a brace then make the pistol illegal if not attached?"
-Yes, if you have a pistol that will fit it...they call it constructive possession.

"4. Is there a good way to use a sling with an AR pistol that creates an alternative should want to avoid any further hassle?"
-Be interesting to see.
This BATF link covers many of the questions
Posted by: Mark S

Re: ATF’s new rule makes just about everything with a pistol brace a short barreled rifle! - 01/27/23 07:22 AM

TY jr45!

Here is my current plan. Some of my firearms are just too much fun to use with a brace and I'll wait a few months and then start the SBR process should there not be a lawsuit and 'stay' issued by the courts.

Others I may try the 'sling' approach and decide that it works well enough and I switch to a smooth buffer tube.

Another question:
If I have a firearm that I have SBRed and a number of braces all of which can fit that firearm, and I happen to have other pistols without a brace on them is it constructive possession? Maybe I just like to swap braces.
Posted by: jr45

Re: ATF’s new rule makes just about everything with a pistol brace a short barreled rifle! - 01/27/23 08:49 AM

Quote:
Another question:
If I have a firearm that I have SBRed and a number of braces all of which can fit that firearm, and I happen to have other pistols without a brace on them is it constructive possession? Maybe I just like to swap braces.


Not sure. Could be a problem if those braces can fit the other pistols you have...definitely check BATF's site.

Funny thing (and disheartening)...if I'm reading the rule currently, we need to admit to BATF that we are currently in possession of a prohibited item thus; breaking the law, in order for them to give us their permission to keep it. Also, for the $200 tax forbearance, it's not forgiven, just will not be collected by BATF at this time.
Posted by: ktyhawk

Re: ATF’s new rule makes just about everything with a pistol brace a short barreled rifle! - 01/27/23 09:50 AM

There is absolutely NO WAY the ATF is going to be able to process all of the requests for SBRs in the next couple of years. Estimates are that there are millions of braced pistols in the U.S. currently. If just 10-20% of people attempted to comply and go through the SBR route, that is hundreds of thousands of request to be completed. There is absolutely no way they will be able to get those requests processed in time and they know that.


Our only hope is that this "rule" is quickly and successfully challenged in court.
Posted by: Agent19

Re: ATF’s new rule makes just about everything with a pistol brace a short barreled rifle! - 03/30/23 08:40 PM

1st Brace case:
https://youtu.be/YHjdRBrQe0Q
Posted by: Mark S

Re: ATF’s new rule makes just about everything with a pistol brace a short barreled rifle! - 04/12/23 01:57 PM

Brace discussion revisited:

From what I've read and watched here's what I think:
1. Is is unlikely there will be no court ordered 'stay' prior to the ATF 'free' SBR application closing.

2. If you SBR an AR and have other uppers and lowers there is no constructive possession case that would be prosecutable.

Couldn't one simply put a rifle tube on a pistol lower and cheek weld or even shoulder it?

Mark S
Posted by: Agent19

Re: ATF’s new rule makes just about everything with a pistol brace a short barreled rifle! - 04/23/23 08:44 AM

https://youtu.be/-82dCZNC-rM
Posted by: Agent19

Re: ATF’s new rule makes just about everything with a pistol brace a short barreled rifle! - 05/01/23 05:17 PM

Supreme Court to the rescue???
https://youtu.be/btqTAYf_1Io
Posted by: Mark S

Re: ATF’s new rule makes just about everything with a pistol brace a short barreled rifle! - 05/03/23 12:59 PM

While I believe they will 'throwout' Chevron, or at least heavily restrict it, I don't thin that ruling will come in time.
Posted by: Agent19

Re: ATF’s new rule makes just about everything with a pistol brace a short barreled rifle! - 05/05/23 11:48 AM

As of the end of April, only 125,000 ATF Form 1’s have been submitted, with the deadline set for May 31, 2023, to receive a free tax stamp and comply with the ruling.


https://www.gunsamerica.com/digest/exclu...idens-new-rule/
Posted by: Agent19

Re: ATF’s new rule makes just about everything with a pistol brace a short barreled rifle! - 05/22/23 01:15 PM

https://youtu.be/orBXxFtxXQ0

<10 days
Posted by: Newgunguy

Re: ATF’s new rule makes just about everything with a pistol brace a short barreled rifle! - 05/22/23 01:32 PM

If you don't comply, but are still scared, I'll take care of the brace for you.
Posted by: Agent19

Re: ATF’s new rule makes just about everything with a pistol brace a short barreled rifle! - 06/03/23 10:11 AM

https://youtu.be/mAFXOnxxl5Q
Posted by: Agent19

Re: ATF’s new rule makes just about everything with a pistol brace a short barreled rifle! - 06/06/23 08:30 AM

https://youtu.be/989rSq0o-0Y
Posted by: Agent19

Re: ATF’s new rule makes just about everything with a pistol brace a short barreled rifle! - 06/16/23 04:32 PM

https://youtu.be/LKJQWwhHpT0
Posted by: Agent19

Re: ATF’s new rule makes just about everything with a pistol brace a short barreled rifle! - 08/02/23 10:04 AM

Brace info:
https://www.youtube.com/live/LmbKDXL0P8Y?feature=share
Posted by: jr45

Re: ATF’s new rule makes just about everything with a pistol brace a short barreled rifle! - 08/03/23 03:35 PM

Good news update! Hopefully this brace rule be heading to the dumpster.

Federal Appeals Court Finds ATF Pistol B...egular Citizen’
Posted by: Agent19

Re: ATF’s new rule makes just about everything with a pistol brace a short barreled rifle! - 10/03/23 12:35 PM

https://youtu.be/HZ5tENbpsHs?si=KJl1CkrzLNV8jm-W
Posted by: Gnome

Re: ATF’s new rule makes just about everything with a pistol brace a short barreled rifle! - 10/03/23 02:55 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L4QFgS6zJL4