Notarized eFiled / copies of a form4/1? - Answered 12/19/14

Posted by: PapaSeven

Notarized eFiled / copies of a form4/1? - Answered 12/19/14 - 12/16/14 10:27 AM

An RSO at my range spent about 10 minutes giving me a hard time for not having notarized eFiled form 4s/1s. I have no idea how you could notarize a digitally signed form 4/1.
Now as for a physical stamp form 4, I guess I could see that you could need it notarized, but I have never heard of the requirement.
I cannot find anything saying one or the other. So, is he mistaken? Or is this something that I completely missed? Either way, this is probably something that may be good for everyone to know.

I spoke John Pierce and he also said the same thing as everyone else here. He gave the head RSO a call and everything is cleared up. I will leave this post as a means of reference as long as it is never pruned.
Thank you all for commenting in the meantime while I was waiting for John.

Posted by: masterlunatic

Re: Notarized eFiled / copies of a form4/1? - 12/16/14 10:29 AM

If the RSO a ATF agent, Lawyer or LEO if not he has no right to question your documents.
The fact you showed him and his range allows the legal products you are using should have serviced. I would like to know the range so i do not provide them with my business.

Posted by: jmb_nova

Re: Notarized eFiled / copies of a form4/1? - 12/16/14 10:32 AM

Your 'RSO' is full of donkey do-do.

Posted by: TheColtCollector

Re: Notarized eFiled / copies of a form4/1? - 12/17/14 09:13 AM

Bob's gun shop in Norfolk gave me a bunch crap because i brought a COPY of my paper filed form 4. Does it say anywhere that i have to bring the original?

Posted by: Hansohn Brothers

Re: Notarized eFiled / copies of a form4/1? - 12/17/14 09:25 AM

There is absoluetly no legal requirement to have your Form 1 or Form 4 notarized and no need to have a copy or original Form 1 or Form 4 with you at the range or anywhere else.

Posted by: TheColtCollector

Re: Notarized eFiled / copies of a form4/1? - 12/17/14 09:31 AM

thats what i figured for the copy. needless to say i dont shoot at bobs anymore

Posted by: PapaSeven

Re: Notarized eFiled / copies of a form4/1? - 12/19/14 01:55 PM

I spoke John Pierce and he also said the same thing. He gave the head RSO a call and everything is cleared up. I will leave this post as a means of reference as long as it is never pruned.
Thank you all for commenting in the meantime while I was waiting for John.

Posted by: Bugzy

Re: Notarized eFiled / copies of a form4/1? - 12/22/14 12:23 AM

Originally Posted By: Hansohn Brothers

..... and no need to have a copy or original Form 1 or Form 4 with you at the range or anywhere else.

OH Really? Your an FFL/SOT and should know this.

Quote:

Section 12.1 Maintaining proof of registration.

The NFA requires that a person possessing a firearm registered in the National Firearms Registration and Transfer Record (NFRTR) retain proof of registration which must be made available to the Attorney General, specifically an ATF agent or investigator, upon request.184 Proof of registration would be on a Form 1 registering a firearm to its maker, Form 2 registering a firearm to an importer or manufacturer, or a Form 3, 4, or 5 showing registration of a firearm to a transferee.

David M. Goldberg puts it laymans terms!

Quote:

October 30, 2014
Must / Should I carry a Copy of my ATF forms with the Firearm?

This is another one of those issues where the answer is not can you do but what should you do. Technically, you do not have to have a copy of your Form 1 or Form 4 for anyone other than the Attorney General, the ATF or an agent or investigator upon request.

Some recent case law has stated that a police officer is not an investigator or agent or the ATF and as such has no right to request to see your ATF form. I cannot believe the amount of money and or the risk that the individual took when a copy of the document on your cell phone or in your gun bag would have avoided the issue. In addition, there is nothing to state that a judge in your state or where you are asked for the paperwork would rule the same way.

The NFA requires that a person possessing a firearm registered in the National Firearms Registration and Transfer Record (NFRTR) retains proof of registration which must be made available to the Attorney General, specifically an ATF agent or investigator, upon request.

So the answer is you might not need to if you are willing to spend months and thousands of dollars should you be arrested, but the smart move would be to have a copy with you to avoid all the potential problems.

My advice...with experience to know. Carry a copy of your form/forms.

Posted by: Hansohn Brothers

Re: Notarized eFiled / copies of a form4/1? - 12/31/14 08:33 PM

Originally Posted By: Bugzy

Originally Posted By: Hansohn Brothers

..... and no need to have a copy or original Form 1 or Form 4 with you at the range or anywhere else.

OH Really? Your an FFL/SOT and should know this.

Mr. Goldberg agrees with me. Am I missing something?

Yes, you have to keep the form 4 but no there is no requirement to carry it around with you.

Posted by: snavematt

Re: Notarized eFiled / copies of a form4/1? - 01/25/15 06:53 PM

I always carry a copy of my form 4(stamp) whenever I take my suppressors anywhere.