This topic may have been brought up before but I'm curious to hear other opinions . More than once I have been in a Walmart of all places and witnessed open carry , my issue is most of these people look under age ( which may be a concealed issue ) or resemble a person that I feel may or may not even need to possess a firearm .
My question / feeling about this is that these people want us to " feel the fact that they have a firearm , and it empower's them ? Which is a trait that I don't think we need in the firearm community ( just my opinion ) .
It somewhat offends me as basically " bad press" for our community , which these days we don't need at all ...... Any thoughts ?

Ill bite on this one...
1. I 100% agree that OPEN carry is not good for the Armed citizenry. Our nation has become fearful somehow we have allowed sidearms to be viewed as a negative thing for the common man. We have too many cry babies who fear their own shadow and the mere thought of an armed citizen is distressing for them.

2. I dont think open carry is tolerated well by the public and I dont care for it myself unless I have an Operational or Administrative purpose to do so. Otherwise its just not right for me.

3. I think that if a person is going to Open Carry, they should Open Carry in a manner that is professional in appearance and doesnt draw attention. Clean Clothes, properly worn, behaving like a good citizen behaves. the problem with my line of thinking is that in a free country people can dress however they want and go wherever they can go and open carry while doing it all. Who am I to judge someones clothing? Who am I to decide how another person is feeling whether they are packing or not.

4. Law abiding gun owners actually rarely get bad press its the mopes out OPENLY behaving foolishly and breaking the law that are the problem. We need to accept that there are more law abiding minorities than law breakers and that just because someone is open carrying doesnt mean they are "feeling" empowered or froggy. Im not Carmac the magnificient and we arent mind readers. Let em run. Live and let live. For me personally, Open Carry is just silly unless Im at Lobby Day or out and about my own property or on a firing range.

5.I personally think that Open Carrying rifles is just plain stupid. With all the above stated When I see "normal behaving" citizens open carrying, regardless of their fashion choices or what I think" they resemble, I often thank them for exercising their rights.

It's only bad press because of the pussification of our once great nation. Do I think OC is a good idea for most? Nope! Do I do it? Nope! Do I support their right to carry as long as they are 18 or older and a non felon? Absolutely. VA is becoming much like those other communist states that have made moves against law abiding gun owners. Now is not the time to stand against our legally carrying brothers and sisters, no matter how dumb they look with a hi point in a nylon Walmart holster. The time now is to educate and stand together.

I do agree with exercising your rights , but I feel that as firearms owners we at this time are under the microscope . I don't like it but it's true . I also feel that it's better to have your firearm ready for a situation but not out where a possible adversary can base his or hers decision to act out on the fact that a person in the crowd is armed . A person being armed ( outside carry ) may deter a situation but it mat also make them the first target .

I posted this looking for good feedback ! Our struggle is real and the younger generations are far easier persuaded into just letting things go , so they have no conflict and life is just easy . That's fine until someone puts them in a hostile life or death situation ...

I open carry in the summer usually and have not gotten any negative response but i conceal in resteraunts when i can so a gun hater doesnt add extra ingredients to my food. I refuse to be PC and let my wife or family be victims to random violence

imaduckin are you older than 60 and in a rural environment? a older person in a rural environment gets less attention that a young person in a urban enviornment. I support the right to open carry but concealed carry is much better for responding to threats. the element of surprise in a crisis is important. bad guys will shoot the old man carrying the 1911 first.

I don't have an issue with open carry at all , I guess I just feel that a wise gun owner would be discreet. Which I feel all of us on VAGT would be , just don't want less discriminatory people ruining it for the rest of us .... Which more than often seems to be the case

We as gun owners are ALWAYS in the spotlight. Thats how the country we live in is now. Regardless of doing good or bad, we are painted as bad. You are looking for good feedback? No. You are looking for support to bolster your beliefs in the opinions you already have. Keep in mind the younger generations as you put it act the way they do because the older generations let things slide and forgot how to teach their children the right way to be an American. A younger person's life is easier? Young people are easier persuaded to just let things go? You are making blanket statements that have no rhyme or reason other than an old mentality that young people suck, which each and every generation says about the next. Think back to when you were young. Did you do dumb things? I bet you did. Did you get influenced by someone that you probably shouldn't have? I bet you did. Human nature. Life. Thats how it goes.

And making open carriers the first target is neither here nor there. If that person open carrying is killed first because they are open carrying and the gun is seen by the shooter, the shooter is already committed and will do what it takes to complete the task they have set for themselves. Maybe it'll give someone with a concealed firearm time to make a judgment call. Maybe the person open carrying will stop the threat. Comjecture. All of it. You are offended by something trivial because you don't like it and that person is young.

It's not on us to decide if OC is ok or right. Its about exercising a right. For those who OC. Great, fine. Stop being dumb and get a carry permit or hurry up and turn 21...and get a carry permit. But regardless, congratulations that you are exercising your rights like so many others fail to do.

Im over 60 and live on the outskirts of town, but like i said im not PC and i exercise my rights for protection, im also handicapped

You are asking for opinions as stated in your post, not good feedback.

"Most people look underage"
Blanket statement with no baseline on which to judge firearms proficiency. I work for ABC and spend literally all my time at work pulling people's IDs who look underage. Looks can be deceiving. Only got 1 out of literally thousands, yes thousands of ID challenges I've done, that was under age. Looks are deceiving.

"resemble a person that I feel may or may not even need to possess a firearm"

What qualifies you to once again judge based on appearance? NOTHING. What constitutes a need to possess a firearm???? Subjective terminology.

The entire basis of your post nothing but you getting into your feelings. Nothing more.

This reads like a troll post. I can't even take it seriously.

OC is dumb


Going to Walmart is also dumb

Your original posts talks down very much so to people who open carry, and open carry in general. Then you later say, "I have no problem with open carry"

Which is it? I've been open carrying every day for the past at least 8 years with narry an issue. Granted i always conduct myself well and dress nicely most of the time

Why? Because i refuse to ask my government for a permission slip to put my shirt over my firearm. I dont want you or anyone else to "feel the fact" that I have a firearm, or be "empowered". That's probly in the top five of the dumbest things I've ever heard. Get over yourself. Your looking at it all wrong. Offended by open carry? If that offends you, maybe I should be leery of you carrying a gun. But hey I am glad you can judge whether or not one can posess a firearm by the way they look, you're a better man than I.

You are the one that negatively affects the gun community. Congrats.



Unless anyone's next responses read something like this, I will assume you are an enemy of the 2nd ammendment, and you probly voted for hillary.

Mabye I am looking at it all wrong and worded my thoughts in a way that a couple of you don't agree with but more times than not when I see open carry I don't care for it . Put whatever twist on it that makes you feel good . Again I'm all for our rights and I'm not against OC .

And I have no idea what a troll post is ....

I am twisting nothing. I am directly quoting things you said and pulling out the most ignorant parts and breaking them down. Nothing more than that. I didn't change anything you said. It doesn't matter how you word your thoughts on this, I believe you to be wrong. I disagree with you and posted exactly why I disagree with you. You are the one flipflopping.

"Again I'm all for our rights and I'm not against OC"

That statement is the exact opposite of your very first post and if you truly felt this way you wouldn't have created this thread in the first place sir. I believe you created it to garner support for a thought you had about an individual you observed without knowing anything else about said individual, and when it didn't work out and nobody was agreeing with you, you began backtracking.

Whatever I'm not backtracking, and not looking for any ones support . It boils down to the fact that I personally don't find OC necessary on most occasions , just my opinion . sorry you feel it your duty (boots) to give me a hard time . you win , I regret posting anything at all . thanks

I don't feel it is my duty to "give you a hard time". You ASKED for opinions. I gave you mine. It was not my intention to step on your toes.

"Open confrontation will trigger
over-powering resistance. Thus the key
to victory is the ability to use surprise tactics."

Sun Tzu
The Art of War

I don't blame people who don't open carry in communist NOVA or other areas of the state full of idiots. Where I live we don't attempt to hide our firearms. A lot of people just flip out when they see a gun. Example, about 10 years or so ago I went to the ABC store around lunch time during hunting season. When I reached through the slit in my bibs to get my wallet my .45 was visible. All of a sudden I hear in a northern yankee voice "HE's GOT A GUN! well I looked around, the clerk looked around and realized all eyes were on me. The clerk laughed and told the northern idiot that people like me were the reason he didn't get robbed.

A very good friend equated Open Carry to Inter-Racial marriage...

You may hate it, but it is LAWFUL and something that is here to stay...

...unless we give up.

what he said

I have no problem with open carry as long as you look like a serious person who knows how to handle himself. I have a problem with small unimposing people open carrying because it puts everyone in danger. It's the feeling you get when you see a 5'1 95 lb female police officer. You think to yourself that anyone with criminal intent could just walk up and help themselves to a free gun. If you open carry then you better practice good weapon retention, and be able to fight without a gun.

... and bunch of other LEOs and I... (off duty) were wearing out a PA Happy Hour once.

I made a similar statement as yours to this tiny lady...

She responded that she was the most dangerous LEO in the room...

"How so?" I asked

"Because the Threshold where I fear for my life and shoot you dead... is half of anyone else here... and a jury will agree."

----------------------------------

OC... CC... bag carry, truck carry... or carry any dang way you see fit...

AND please support ALL OF US THAT CHOOSE TO BE ARMED...

In a bad situation... I will take any good guy with a gun vs. no gun.

50% of the US wants only bad guys to have the guns.

Hell... I even support gun ownership/carry for the blind.

Man, I never thought a that

Open carry is not my favorite thing, but I do it in certain environments. As relatively young man, who happens to be "of color"; I get a lot of questions from some people wondering if I am afraid of being confronted. I simply state that nothing I do while carrying open or concealed gives a reasonably sane person any concern.

I don't conform to the idea that just because a person does not look competent or appropriate, they are trouble.

There are some people that are just not good ambassadors for the gun culture.

In certain areas, the general public is heavily populated with worriers and feel that an "authoritative" figure needs to come along and tell them something is "Okay".

+1

I've heard that point from many LEO's (about tiny female cops). And it makes sense only when the officer has the drop on a suspect or knows that they are responding to a threat. When you are in line at the 7-11, or not expecting an attack? I fear that they aren't going to be able to retain their weapon, let alone draw it and shoot the suspect who is attempting to disarm them. I of course support everyone's right to carry in any fashion that they choose, but I think people need to be smart about it. Carrying a gun should be about safety..not about making a political statement, or trying to look like Charles Bronson.

Just a point but i usually try to keep my pistol side pointed away from close people(checkout line) and try to keep my arm over it when i can

.


How are these and the other arguments against OC any different than the leftists arguments regarding gun ownership/CC?

Do you concern yourself with what other lawful citizens(no proof of criminal activity) are doing when it has no direct impact on you and yours?

If you don’t like something personally than don’t do it. Condemning the lawful acts of others is what nanny staters do.

You hit the nail on the head

Careful with that kind of thinking. You may develop tendencies to respecting others ability to have choices that are different than your own. /sarcasm

I support OC for 2 reasons:

1. "The Right to Keep and Bear Arms Shall not be Infringed"!!!!!!!
It should not be simply tolerated but encouraged.

2. If a snowflake should accidentally see my CC I am not guilty of "brandishing".


I personally prefer to carry concealed because I do not want to be targeted.
And if I should ever need to use my gun I do not want the recipient anticipating the fact I'm armed until they see (and feel) that widening blood spot in the center of their chest.


I consider everyone to be armed and treat them as such.

When GSG-9 formed, and were dealing with all sorts of fringe domestic terrorist groups, one of the first things they told cadets was "shoot the women first. They are the most lethal in the group. They've had to work 10 times as hard to be considered half as good."

The problem is that, like you said, the nanny staters do condemn the lawful acts of others. And, the nanny staters elected our current governor and half of the legislature. I think OC should be legal, but that we gun owners should have enough sense not to unduly upset the nanny staters. Do I like it? No. Do I have enough sense to acknowledge the danger they present to us? Of course. So, while I do not care what legal actions others take that do not effect me, I'm at least bright enough to know that people who OC in those places and times that do upset the nanny staters, may very well effect me if it further influences the snowflakes to pass more anti gun legislation or elect more anti gun politicians. To simply rail about "shall not be infringed" WITHOUT exercising a little bit of common sense about the dangers of your opponents, is like the guy facing a head on truck in his lane, but is too stubborn to move. Yeah, he may have been in the right, but he is going to be dead right.

casull nailed it ^^^^

FALSE...

They are coming after your RIGHTS whether you do XYZ... or do not do XYZ.

It really IS THAT SIMPLE.

OC, CC, bag carry, truck carry... or do not carry at all. That is you RIGHT, but do not ever tell another what to do.

NEVER LIVE YOUR LIFE UNDER THE DOMINION OF ANOTHER MAN!

As Cash has stated your/our rights are in their sights, no matter what.

The folks against US would love to see US divided, don’t play into their hands.

No, it's not false. Yes, they are coming after our rights. BUT, if we don't have the sense to not unduly antagonize them we when we don't need to, then they are going to come stronger and in greater numbers. As to the BS about "never live your life under the dominion of another man", while that sounds good, it's nonsense. We live our lives under the dominion of others every day. It's called laws and civilized society. To pretend otherwise is pure ignorance. Exercise your rights, but also exercise some common sense. It really is that simple.

Casull is making an excellent point. It's like being an ardent supporter of the 1st amendment, while also recognizing that street preachers like the west borough baptist church aren't necessarily good ambassadors to the cause. People abusing their rights and acting like trolls cause the other side to swell in numbers. I believe it is your right to yell hateful language from public areas while soldiers are being buried, just as it is your right to open carry in front of a vegan restaurant. Both aren't smart though.

MOD EDIT: NO NEED FOR NAME CALLING

Dominion is what a prisoner lives under by his Warden... or a POW by his Captors.

LAWS ARE NOT DOMINION...

Laws/Rights are instead the very cornerstone of a civilized society.

Exercise you Rights within the Law... or do not (I care not), but NEVER TELL ANOTHER HOW TO LIVE THEIR LIFE or IMPLY THEY SHOULD OR SHOULD NOT EXERCISE THEIR RIGHTS.

Need proof... the very fact that you are free to disagree is proof the system works and you are under the Dominion of no one...

YET.

Ya think?

Unfortunately

Do you truly not understand what you write? Every law we have is telling someone how to live their life, in one way or another.

Casull... You really do not know me at all...

Drop me a PM sometime... maybe we need to get together for a beer.

I sincerely pity you and all that are obsessed with asking permission to use the toilet... or NOT live their life as they see fit.

Yielding to the whims of others over what you may or may not say... or may or may not do... is paramount to confirming another's authority (Dominion) over you.

That... is painfully sad.

------------------------

I get the point you guys are trying to make... a group of folks exercising their 2A Rights in front of Sandy Hook ES is just as tasteless as Westboro protesting a MOH funeral.

BUT (and I repeat)... when you allow others to decide what Right's you may exercise... because some snowflake might melt (or pretend to melt)... you instantly admit that ANYONE's "feelings" (at any time... ON ANY TOPIC) matter more than your Rights...

But alas... I strongly suspect it's already too late... and that pro-gun sites like VAGT will all be gone in a few years anyway... and guys like me will have already have been kicked off (and kicked out of the NRA)... for being "TOO" +2A.

The probelm I see is we have too many "special" gun owners not wanting to loose their special status, so they work against Constitutional carry.

Many special gun owners don't care so they just sit on the sidelines, excepting whatever happens as a win as long as they can keep there special status and perks.


And some just let the big boys in the gun lobby speak for them....

And the big boys are all about the dollar. If there's no money to be made than no thanks.



Don’t believe me ask Emmet Hanger.

Sorry fellows. I just see your approach as not helping. If I see a mad dog, it may very well bite me. If I poke it with a stick, it WILL bite me. As I said before, I believe in OC, but I also believe that we should exercise a bit of common sense and not poke the dog if we don't need to. I place intelligence over arrogance.

I truly do not and will not ever understand the mindset of feeling obligated to appease someone ELSE with regard to whether or not a garment covers MY sidearm. How ridiculous! The people saying this kind of stuff sound like a racist's reaction to blacks being desegregated years ago, or a bigot's reaction to homosexuals publicly displaying affection towards each other.

Shaming other gun owners for helping to maintain a positive image of gun carry is not OK. Discussions are great! Even discussions with negative feedback! But we mustn't de-legitimize or alienate our allys. It's antithetical to a more progressive pro gun campaign to GAIN ground on liberty, not lose it.

The whole point is LIBERTY, correct?

Has that ever happened? Criminals, of all varieties, look for EASY TARGETS. GUN FREE ZONES. School shootings? Concerts? Churches? NYC? Chicago?

My girl open carries all the time. She's 5'4, 110lbs. Not once has anyone given her a hard time, or tried to take her gun away.

I can't believe the ignorance of some people, thinking some punk who robs a 7-11 will purposely rob it if he sees someone OCing and shoot him first. My god, stop and think for once. Anyone who knocks over a liquor store, 7-11, etc, wants a FAST and EASY job, NOT to get into a shootout with someone who may be better armed and skilled than himself.

Just THINK for once. If there are 2 equal stores next to each other....a robber is standing in front of both of them. In one he sees a customer at the counter OCing. The other is completely empty save for the lone employee. WHICH ONE DO YOU REALLY THINK HE'S GOING TO ROB?????

Just like the animal kingdom. They prey on the weak, defenseless, sick or injured. Does a pride of lions single out the biggest, baddest cape buffalo out of a herd of 100s, weighing 1300lbs with 4ft of horns? Or do they look for an old, limping, lame buffalo past his prime? Or a young, weak and slow juvenile?

Open carry works as a DETERRENT. Just like putting alarm system signs in your front lawn. And there is another prime example. 2 houses next to each other. One has obvious alarm signs in the front lawn. The other doesn't. Which one do you think has a greater possibility of getting robbed? Will a burglar even take the chance the house with the alarm signs? Or will he hedge his bets and hit the house without signs?

Some interesting posts on this topic. I agree with Swinger in his post just above mine when he states, "Criminals, of all varieties, look for EASY TARGETS. GUN FREE ZONES.". Of course, merely open carrying does not confer firearm competence, one must train diligently. That said, whether or not we agree with the concept we have to accept that there are zero valid gun laws in this country. They are all repugnant to the Bill of Rights. We also have to accept the caveat that exercise of civil rights means to exercise responsibility and common sense. This does not mean to limit the right but don't be an idiot. It also does not free one from verbal retaliation.
Personally I do not open carry. From the police academy on we were always taught to "keep your gat (slang for handgun) hidden". I believe that is a fine rule to live by however, others may not agree which is fine.
Be careful, be weapon conscious and maintain situational awareness. Know that if you display you may be the first target. Those of us who "can" have a responsibility to "do" if necessary.

I open carry only when I'm wearing my badge. Enough said. People do look at you differently if you have a badge. Otherwise, don't draw attention to yourself

Shhhhhhhh....don't draw attention to yourself

If you hang out with the great VCDL folks that have literally led the fight that has resulted in real positive changes in the firearm laws in Virginia you will observe open carrying frequently. At a VCDL meeting about a year back, the current president noted that it was Virginia culture many years ago that gentlemen openly carried their firearms, whilst criminals concealed their firearms. When an armed citizen is open carrying their “intent” is not concealed. I propose the armed citizen that is openly carrying has an observable intent to protect him or herself (and possibly others) with deadly force.

If you don’t open carry I challenge you to start open carrying - get over it and just do it. Open carrying is legal in Virginia thus it should be a common occurrence to see someone open carrying.

try open carry and being Latino. I tried that and almost got killed by police. Never again! Thats was years ago. Low profile with a CHP is the only way for me.

Alex75 brings up a good point! I generally believe that "White Privilege" is nonsense, but I believe that it applies when it comes to carrying and using firearms. Police and Concealed Carriers are both going to be more on edge if they see a black or brown man with a gun vs a white man with a gun. When a white guy is open carrying the first thing in most peoples mind is, "I wonder if he's a cop?" or " I wonder if he's some type of Open Carry activist?". When its a person of color with a gun, people are going to feel more panicked. It sucks!!! But I think it is an uncomfortable truth that we need to recognize. There are tons of youtube videos showing the difference between white and black people open carrying..... The police respond very differently depending on what race the open carry guy is.

Having been a non white American for more than half a century I’ve never experienced a negative encounter and I’ve been OC’ing for over 32yrs.

From CA to VT I’ve OC’ed where legal in that time frame, and do so whenever I drive across county and in my daily life.

The first 5 years we lived in Fairfax county, nary an issue. Except a local book store asked me not to OC there anymore as guns caused violence.
Funny part I had entered that book store while Oc’ing every Sunday for the prior 5 years with no issues.

I'm all for open carry, i just think concealed gives me an advantage in a bad situation. let's you get the jump on a hostage taker or mass killer.

Im not going to be panicked no matter what color you are as long as its holstered and you're not acting crazy

I'm shocked and pleased that you have not had a negative open carry encounter in 32 years AGENT19! I wish it was the same for everyone. A black friend of mine who carries a gun for a living wont even carry concealed anymore. He only carries if he's in uniform with a badge on. Maybe he's paranoid, and maybe not. He stooped carrying off the clock after watching the Philando Castile Video.

I feel for your friend.
I can’t comment on his state of mind or reasoning for not carrying.

The idea I will be thought of as the suspect vs seen as the victim of a attempted criminal act is real.


However, being able to defend me and mine out weighs those fears.

And your assumption will be wrong, why issue such an ultimatum?

The OP asked a fair question, maybe not worded the way you insist he should have asked his question, but he isn't you, so get over your preachy indignation.

My opinion, there are times when i feel open carry is inappropriate. To claim that this opinion is anti 2nd amendment, is your right, to be wrong.

Even as someone who OC's 99%, I know there are times when it's not appropriate.
However, I also know that for some the only option is OC or not carry at all.

Support Constitutional Carry!

His point was that no good comes from trashing those who OC. Further dividing ourselves or judging gun owners who chose to OC does us as a group no good.

Read up on your city specific regs and limitations folks

Richmond, some towns in tidewater and inside the beltway have mag capacity limits. Don't screw it up by not knowing the boundaries. Better study up on proximity to school property, too.

The local POPO may not give you a pass and a DA is always looking for an easy slam dunk prosecution to bolster the resume'

Long gun OC is just asking for a rectal search in any city environ.

IMO, we antagonize "them" just by existing.

"Read up on your city specific regs and limitations folks".... I thought that Virginia had a rule that localities cannot preempt state laws on firearms?!?! Otherwise Arlington and Alexandria would have banned guns all together.

The day you chastise others for exercising their God given rights is the day you've joined the opposition. Exercise your rights with impunity!

They did...and were shot down by the State.

Open carry is not my thing but I like it when I see someone open carrying - esp. in NoVa. When I was living in FFX's Circle Towers post divorce circa 2009 or so there used to be a young black guy in my building who would open carry all the time.

Gotta love the Walmart idiots who open carry. Why open carry if you don't have to?

Full Quote

"If you think like a Statist, act like one, or back some, you've given up on freedom and have gone over to the dark side.
The easiest ex. but probably the most difficult to grasp for gun owners is that fool permission slip so many of you have, especially if you show it off with pride.
You should recognize it as an embarrassment, an infringement, a travesty and an affront to a free person."

~Alan Korwin

We all can benefit:
https://youtu.be/Jj1ION8M4fg