Looks like we are not going to have a range in Prince William County for the general public to use much longer


https://www.pwcva.gov/news/prince-willia...u_tz-sT3Fh6XgtA

Just went to Elite for the first (and probably last) time recently. I found the facility nice and staff kind enough.

Does anyone know what the usage rate of police ranges is? This purchase for a suburban police department seems like an excess even for government.

No doubt in my mind PWC knows exactly how many federal law enforcement sites are in the NOVA area, heck DHS has a facility not 10 minutes from Elite and their officers are always there. PWC will rent lanes to the feds and still apply for a federal grant the following year to cover all their costs, a racket if there ever was one. Hate it, found going to Elite enjoyable when I was there.

I'm really upset by this news. I shoot a lot of Russian ammo and most of it is steel cased bi-metal jacket lead core. Every indoor range and many outdoor ranges even ban any ammo that fails their magnet test. Elite is the only range that will give me the time of day and cut the bullet open and verify it is lead core. They even let me keep the cut bullet so I could skip all of that in the future. Its a big deal when brass Russian ammo is nearly twice the price over the bi-metal jacket stuff. The staff are courteous and kind and it feels like a completely different environment than the NRA range.

22 million taxpayer monies for a county range

No way to be certain a few greasy politicians are not getting kickbacks?

This is such bad news for law-abiding gun owners in PWC. I also can’t imagine anything but a dirty deal somewhere in the backwoods. It appears to be fully in keeping with liberal efforts to put the kabash on firearms ownership and usage in NoVA. Probably another tax increase coming from PWC to pay for it – we are already paying 10% sales tax on McDonald’s and such purchases. At this point and for the last few years, we the people have no input or control on unlimited government in Northern Virginia.

I've walked thu Xcal, wasn't a big fan of the atmosphere. Plus, a veterans months membership is $35 a month, and $25 more for each family member added. Elite was $35 a month, and $5 for each add on. If it closes to the public I'll probably try Silver Eagle, it's only $55 a month for the family membership.

You can count on that, that's almost a certainty. Also the line of BS about the owner "looking to retire" - after what? Five years? Sure, what a line of crap. More likely PWC told them "either sell or we'll regulate you out of existence". (corrected as I heard the owner sold due to illness)

Comically sad is that LEOs have such a huge image problem in society & this is the solution? Spend 22 million, 22 million that could have gone to schools or other public use? Yeah, that should make an already detested group even more popular. /s

The anti crowd is going to have a field day with this boondoggle. First question will be "how long could you rent (like a ton of other groups do) for 22 million"?

A letter I wrote to the Supervisor of PWC. The big question I have is can they purchase this property if the bond hasn't even been approved? The law is stated as follows:

Article 4. Bond Issues by Counties.
§ 15.2-2638. Powers of counties generally; approval of voters required.
A. Except as provided in subsection B of this section, no county has the power to contract any debt or to issue its bonds unless a majority of the voters of the county voting on the question at an election held in accordance with §§ 15.2-2610 and 15.2-2611 approve contracting the debt, borrowing the money and issuing the bonds.

B. Voter approval is not required for a county (i) to contract debt or to issue bonds described in Article VII, Section 10(a)(1) and (3) of the Constitution of Virginia, (ii) to issue refunding bonds, or (iii) to issue bonds, with the consent of the school board and the governing body of the county, for capital projects for school purposes which are sold to the Literary Fund, the Virginia Retirement System, or other state agency prescribed by law.

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Re: Elite Shooting Sports to Stay Open to Public!

From Lawson, Jeanine M. <JLawson@pwcgov.org> To bh2win
Date Thursday, January 26th, 2023 at 3:39 PM Thursday, January 26th, 2023 at 3:39 PM

Good afternoon Mr. bh2win,

My apologies for the delayed response.

I knew this purchase would require explaining, so please allow me to cover all the points. PWC PD is 700+ sworn officers and Sheriff Hill has close to 100 deputies. All require routine training and twice-a-year qualified certification. The county's public safety training facility is currently in Nokesville and includes a shooting range with only 1 bay that is partially outdoors, so weather can be a factor. It's simply become inefficiently for the size of our force today.

So, several years ago, we began working on a new expansion master plan and even purchased farmland adjacent to the facility. This plan included an estimated $28M indoor shooting range. When we learned that the owner of Elite was retiring and had interest in selling the range, we considered it an excellent opportunity for improving public safety by acquiring a facility where officers could receive scenario-based firearms & tactical training in a state-of-the-art facility. We began discussions and negotiations with the owner’s agent almost a year ago. Anytime PWC is purchasing land (or other assets), those conversations are always confidential to protect our bargaining power. If the public were to learn we’re an interested buyer, the market would be easier to manipulate and obviously using public funds, we take measures to avoid that.

Acquiring Elite, and not undertaking a new construction project, allowed for us to save the county time, at least $6M, and the Nokesville residents will no longer endure range noise. Staff is planning to finance the project through a 20-year bond.

Serious consideration was given to continuing to allow public access to the range; however, there were very strong concerns including security, liability, and securing financing that have made that an unlikely scenario. As much as I would have liked that to work, the risks are too high.

In discussions with the owner, he has indicated that Elite will be reaching out to membership holders on next steps. A lease back through April gives the owner and Elite members time to properly close. It’s unfortunate that Elite will no longer be available to the public. It’s my hope someone from the private sector will open a new facility. I hope you can appreciate my concern was centered on training priorities for our police & sheriff departments who are already under scrutiny. They’re excited to have adequate space, parking, upscale equipment etc. With the recent pay raise and now this, morale has been lifted.

If I can answer any additional questions, please let me know.


Jeanine Lawson
Supervisor, Brentsville District 703-792-6190 Prince William Board of County Supervisors


From: Frostitut
Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2023 7:47 AM
To: Gainesville District <gainesville@pwcgov.org>; BOCS Chair <chair@pwcgov.org>; Lawson, Jeanine M.
<JLawson@pwcgov.org>
Subject: Elite Shoo ng Sports to Stay Open to Public!

This email is from an EXTERNAL source. Use caution when replying or clicking embedded links.

Chair & Supervisors,

This deal for PWC to purchase Elite Shooting Sports has many firearm enthusiasts at a loss and very upset! ESS needs to stay open to the public in some capacity because taking away this range a&#64256;ects many working professionals who would otherwise have to travel to Sterling, Loudoun or Winchester for a decent range! The County should not just be able to purchase a single range that is heavily used by the public, no matter if the owner is tired and wants to retire.

Please consider a plan to keep the range open to the public! The Nokesville range was not open to the public but this could be a chance to work with the public since they weren't even asked about how they felt regarding the deal!


-bh2win

First - good effort, at least you asked.

Blah, blah, blah.....yada, yada, yada.

Same ol' BS from every politician - I get complaints & I want to get re-elected so we're closing the range. I care little about anything but re-election.

Elite currently serves more than a few agencies and other groups as well as the public, it has a ton of capacity. As it stands now the public use is generally range 3. Training is always going on. They need 1,400hrs. A single 10 lane range for a day is 120hrs = 11.6 days out of 365 days - LMAO, yeah, sure no room for other use.

Truth - the PD does not want to share their fancy new clubhouse with the riff-raff that is the public.

As I've said before just a PR nightmare, one look at Atlanta will tell you how the public views these types of expenditures when there's trailers outside schools.

Follow up email.

*****************************************************************

From: Mr. bh2win
Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2023 3:54 PM
To: Lawson, Jeanine M. <JLawson@pwcgov.org>
Subject: Re: Elite Shooting Sports to Stay Open to Public!


Thank you for your email and explanation.

The largest question I have is this, is Prince William County open to any more shooting ranges being constructed within the county? ESS was able to be built before, would the Board deny any new ranges in the county?

-bh2win

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Mr. bh2win,

This is staff. In answer to your question - it is hard to say. It would depend on many factors, such as location, how large the venue, among others, when the proposal came before the Board.
But, as you said, Elite was approved by the Board of Supervisors previously, so it could happen again. And this is an election year, so anything can happen! And Supervisor Lawson would certainly be open to having another range here in PWC.

Thank you,
Tiffany Woodard for:

Jeanine Lawson
Supervisor, Brentsville District 703-792-6190
Prince William Board of County Supervisors

Nice effort bh

Empty words though

I called and cancelled my monthly automatic deductions

I agree.


Yeah, they're never going to approve a range. Aside from Vega they are bought & paid for......that's how we ended up with the DC reject as chief.

Signed up with silver eagle recently, so far no complaints on my end.

I do miss the 100 yard bench at Elite but will have to make do with 50 yard shooting and not as much rifle support.

It is what it is.

I went to ESS a few times when visiting my brother in NoVa. Really nice facility, everyone was friendly and that 100 yard indoor section with the shot monitor screens in each lane was superb. What I heard is the owner wanted to retire and PWC ponied up the most $$ by a huge margin. Not surprised. Did they really need it? That's debatable but being how ultra blue NoVa has become the idea of a new facility opening up is a pipe dream in my opinion............

Looks like it is time to get off my butt and build my range.

Let me know if you need some help.

For someone who is a 2A enthusiast, why in the name of jesus christ on a bike would you support Silver Eagle?

Are you aware the owner support and donates LARGE sums of money to liberal candidates/politicians?

I would re-think where you want to spend your money...you're membership at SEG is funding anti-2A efforts at the end of the day.

Dont believe me though - research it yourself.
Do some homework on Dario Marquez

Here to get you started: now you know

For someone who is a 2A enthusiast, why in the name of jesus christ on a bike would you support Silver Eagle?

---Because they are nearby and last time I went to NRA they told me to take down my zombie targets because there were children in the other lane, but I could buy "their" zombie targets. After 3 shots I brought my target in and left and will never step foot in there again.

Are you aware the owner support and donates LARGE sums of money to liberal candidates/politicians?

----No. Can you post some links of this?

I would re-think where you want to spend your money...you're membership at SEG is funding anti-2A efforts at the end of the day.

---I am rethinking it and responding to you hear and now.

Dont believe me though - research it yourself.
Do some homework on Dario Marquez

---Is there any place in the Northern VA area that is pro 2A and has a range further than 25 yards like XCAL?

Here you go to get you started. All you need to do is use the magical google button and query 'Dario Marquez political donations.

$10k to Democrat Richard Saslaw

More donations to democrats


---Because they are nearby and last time I went to NRA they told me to take down my zombie targets because there were children in the other lane, but I could buy "their" zombie targets. After 3 shots I brought my target in and left and will never step foot in there again.

* I dont recommend the NRA range either. Every range, not just NRA has stupid target rules. Elite included.


----No. Can you post some links of this?

* Look at the links i posted above. Maybe next time you go there, ask someone about the money they donate to democrat politicians and see what their reaction is.

---Is there any place in the Northern VA area that is pro 2A and has a range further than 25 yards like XCAL?

* Since Elite will be closing, that leaves a big hole for 25+ yard indoor. Not sure if Issac Walton has anything. Quantico has 25+ but outdoor.


I guess my point is even if SE is close by, do you want to patronize a facility who's owners deliberately fund democrat politicians that want to reduce your gun rights? Doesn't it seem counterproductive to do so?

The money YOU are paying to go shoot your firearms there is getting turned around and directed to campaigns with goals to restrict your 2A rights. Doesn't make much sense huh?

I realize it may be the closest place to you geographically, still no reason to fund efforts that go against your beliefs.

Honestly i think they (the Marquez's)do this on purpose. They probably find it hysterical that all the business and money they get from pro 2A customers goes right around and gets send to politicians with goals to restrict those customers 2A rights. Basically gun owners funding their opposition.

Just food for thought.

I shoot up to 300 at The Crucible in Fredericksburg.
They have a gun club. No Sheetbirds allowed there.
Not cheap but outstanding ranges. All outdoors though.
Their gun club is worth a look if you are serious about shooting.
They offer free coaching, free classes Monthly Feb-Nob for members.
look em up.

Just looked up the Crucible on the Google. Nice webpage and lots of info about training and driving classes, and such – but no mention anywhere of being available as just a shooting range or the gun club …

I think it is a "if you know, you know" thing.

Are there any ranges in the immediate northern VA area that are 50 yards or longer that are pro 2a?

I believe shooting is a diminishing skill and staying fresh is important. If its an hour plus drive each way then I'll likely not be able to shoot as often.

Even getting out to elite was difficult for me at times.

What range noises?