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#452508 - 01/10/13 05:31 PM
Re: BILL OF SALE -- PROTECT YOURSELF
[Re: VaGunTrader]
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bayrunner
Single barrel
Registered: 11/16/12
Posts: 35
Loc: VA
City or County: Norfolk
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The rifle I am selling was sold to me without a bill of sale. If I make a potential buyer sign a bill of sale for me could I face any potential backlash if the gun was eventually found to be stolen?
Not that I think that it is at all likely.
_________________________
Join VCDL!
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#454319 - 01/13/13 12:59 PM
Re: BILL OF SALE -- PROTECT YOURSELF
[Re: VaGunTrader]
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JohnShelton
Pea shooter
Registered: 01/13/13
Posts: 2
Loc: Virginia
City or County: Hopewell
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I would like to post my rifle how do I get started?
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#469228 - 02/02/13 12:34 PM
Re: BILL OF SALE -- PROTECT YOURSELF
[Re: VaGunTrader]
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Leehubb
Pea shooter
Registered: 10/18/12
Posts: 4
Loc: Virginia
City or County: Virginia Beach
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I now have first hand experience with Firearm Bill of Sale. Received a call yesterday from local office of ATF office in Norfolk. I had sold a handgun to and individual from VA a few months ago and we prepaired a Bill of Sale. As it turns out, this firearm ended up in New York and the agent was tracing the sale and disposition. I had all info and even Faxed him a copy of Bill of Sale. Sure glad I had it. Be careful guys. You never know when you will get a trace call.
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#474266 - 02/09/13 07:38 AM
Re: BILL OF SALE -- PROTECT YOURSELF
[Re: VaGunTrader]
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swamphag
Pea shooter
Registered: 02/07/13
Posts: 4
Loc: virginia
City or County: BEDFORD
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A friend of mine locally bought several guns over a few month period last year. The guns turned out to be stolen with no bill's of sale on any of them. My friends life is being made very interesting by the local LEO's, state and ATF at this very moment.
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#495400 - 03/10/13 04:10 AM
Re: BILL OF SALE -- PROTECT YOURSELF
[Re: VaGunTrader]
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Scubasteve
Single barrel
Registered: 07/16/12
Posts: 36
Loc: Norfolk, Virginia
City or County: Norfolk
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Thanks for posting this. Now I will not feel sketched out to sell my Mosin Nagant.
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#496821 - 03/12/13 12:08 PM
Re: BILL OF SALE -- PROTECT YOURSELF
[Re: DrMark]
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P3Bill
VETERAN PEASHOOTER
Registered: 12/21/10
Posts: 1790
Loc: Wilderness
City or County: Orange County
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The law requires that the seller and buyer of a firearm must be a resident of the state in which the transfer occurs for a FTF transaction.
Furthermore, legally, a person may sell a firearm to an unlicensed resident of his state, if he does not know or have reasonable cause to believe the person is prohibited from receiving or possessing firearms.
A seller is not required by law to see ID; many do as a way to check residency.
A bill of sale is certainly not required by law; many avoid them on principle or as a way of protecting their Personally Identifiable Information (PII).
Identity theft is a real problem folks, and it's made easier by the casual release of PII. We're trained at work on the importance of and approached to protecting PII. Please think twice and protect yourself before providing personal information to a stranger, particularly a stranger who now has reason to believe you keep firearms in your home.
I agree. Will be happy to show my D/L and CHP. Record my address and Phone # but will not record D/L number or CHP number. I will not require that the other party record his/her personal information other than address. Routinely get phone number to facilitate rendezvous for sale.
_________________________
"Guns are a lot like parachutes ~ If you need one and don't have one, you'll probably never need one again"
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#503899 - 03/22/13 06:00 PM
Re: BILL OF SALE -- PROTECT YOURSELF
[Re: VaGunTrader]
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UBETRUN
Marksman
Registered: 01/02/12
Posts: 372
Loc: Stafford, VA
City or County: Stafford
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M16gunner, you don't even have to ask if the buyer is a VA resident or ask if they are a felon. The law only says that you can't sell if you KNOW or SUSPECT the buyer is prohibited, the law says nothing about asking or proving the buyer's eligibility.
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#503900 - 03/22/13 06:02 PM
Re: BILL OF SALE -- PROTECT YOURSELF
[Re: Leehubb]
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UBETRUN
Marksman
Registered: 01/02/12
Posts: 372
Loc: Stafford, VA
City or County: Stafford
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I now have first hand experience with Firearm Bill of Sale. Received a call yesterday from local office of ATF office in Norfolk. I had sold a handgun to and individual from VA a few months ago and we prepaired a Bill of Sale. As it turns out, this firearm ended up in New York and the agent was tracing the sale and disposition. I had all info and even Faxed him a copy of Bill of Sale. Sure glad I had it. Be careful guys. You never know when you will get a trace call. And what would have happened if you didn't have the Bill of Sale?
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#504539 - 03/23/13 04:23 PM
Re: BILL OF SALE -- PROTECT YOURSELF
[Re: VaGunTrader]
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Leehubb
Pea shooter
Registered: 10/18/12
Posts: 4
Loc: Virginia
City or County: Virginia Beach
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I don't know what would have happened if I didn't have a bill of sale when the ATF office called me but I dont have worry about it. At least I got them off my back for what ever reason.
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#504580 - 03/23/13 05:38 PM
Re: BILL OF SALE -- PROTECT YOURSELF
[Re: Leehubb]
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UBETRUN
Marksman
Registered: 01/02/12
Posts: 372
Loc: Stafford, VA
City or County: Stafford
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I don't know what would have happened if I didn't have a bill of sale when the ATF office called me but I dont have worry about it. At least I got them off my back for what ever reason. Just telling them that you sold it would have got them off your back too.
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#504793 - 03/23/13 11:22 PM
Re: BILL OF SALE -- PROTECT YOURSELF
[Re: VaGunTrader]
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VaGunTrader
The Dictator
Registered: 11/19/08
Posts: 4033
Loc: Petersburg Va
City or County: Petersburg
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you guys can do what you want but with a bill of sale it takes the attention away from you
if you buy a gun don't you want to prove who you bought it from?
in the event that the gun you bought turns out to be stolen you have some explaining to do.
wouldn't it be so much easier to hand that bill of sale over to the authorities and say "go talk to this guy"
or you can just play tough guy and see how it pans out
_________________________
When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.
Thomas Jefferson
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#509982 - 04/01/13 12:18 AM
Re: BILL OF SALE -- PROTECT YOURSELF
[Re: VaGunTrader]
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thabigo
Bolt action
Registered: 03/31/13
Posts: 158
Loc: VA
City or County: Falls Church
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Ok so here is a Scenario. Since I am In Northern Virginia, I have DC and Maryland within 15-30 mins away. If a MD resident wants to buy a AR-15 Lower from me would that be legal? What if he signs my Bill of Sale (the ones you have listed here), Provides Photo ID, and myself being a Notary I notarize his Signature... I don't see how this would not be ok.
What are your thoughts on this?
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#510035 - 04/01/13 07:23 AM
Re: BILL OF SALE -- PROTECT YOURSELF
[Re: VaGunTrader]
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VaGunTrader
The Dictator
Registered: 11/19/08
Posts: 4033
Loc: Petersburg Va
City or County: Petersburg
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its my understanding that the lower is treated just like a whole gun. There is a serial number on the lower. That lower needs to be delivered to a FFL in Md and it needs to be transferred to the buyer.
Someone correct me if I'm wrong
_________________________
When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.
Thomas Jefferson
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#510114 - 04/01/13 10:19 AM
Re: BILL OF SALE -- PROTECT YOURSELF
[Re: VaGunTrader]
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UBETRUN
Marksman
Registered: 01/02/12
Posts: 372
Loc: Stafford, VA
City or County: Stafford
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VaGunTrader is correct, can't legally do a private sale if the buyer and seller are from different states.
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#510258 - 04/01/13 03:14 PM
Re: BILL OF SALE -- PROTECT YOURSELF
[Re: VaGunTrader]
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thabigo
Bolt action
Registered: 03/31/13
Posts: 158
Loc: VA
City or County: Falls Church
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Yea I was reading the Maryland Code and it states...
"Private firearms sellers (persons who are not licensed dealers) must process transfers1 of “regulated firearms” (handguns and assault weapons)2 through a licensed dealer or designated law enforcement agency.3 In addition, no regulated firearm transfers may be made to any person whom the private seller knows or has a reasonable cause to believe is a prohibited purchaser under state law."
"Private sales of standard rifles and shotguns are not required to be processed through a licensed dealer, and purchasers are not subject to background checks."
So I guess Standard Rifles and Shotties are OK.
But Realistically. If you do get that purchasers information and Verify with DL, what is the difference if they are from MD or VA. You have there information and a Signed Bill of SALE. That should cover your butt regardless.
IF you read the Bill of Sale that they are signing it States " CAN Lawfully Receive, possess, ship or transport a firearm."
I guess if I were to add "CAN Legally Purchase Firearm In the STATE OF Maryland"
That would be extra butt coverage.
Edited by thabigo (04/01/13 03:17 PM)
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#510291 - 04/01/13 04:30 PM
Re: BILL OF SALE -- PROTECT YOURSELF
[Re: VaGunTrader]
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UBETRUN
Marksman
Registered: 01/02/12
Posts: 372
Loc: Stafford, VA
City or County: Stafford
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It's not just state law that governs interstate transfers, ATF regulations specifically prohibit sales across state lines without FFL involvement.
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#539971 - 05/25/13 07:19 AM
Re: BILL OF SALE -- PROTECT YOURSELF
[Re: nk02442]
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gunman33
Pea shooter
Registered: 05/25/13
Posts: 6
Loc: va
City or County: richmond
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No there is not a law, and really we should not
be placing the concerns on the weapons but the individuals. We are confirming that it is the gun that is bad not the person. With all of today's
modern surveillance I cannot believe that the police have to trace back a gun to solve crimes.
I believe this self enforcement may be used against us in the future and lead to gun registration which leads to confiscation.
Why don't we focus on a free on line data base were we type in the name and DL of the buyer and if he is a felon he will be rejected, don't even give the guns serial numbers.
just my 2 cents
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#542693 - 05/30/13 01:28 PM
Re: BILL OF SALE -- PROTECT YOURSELF
[Re: thabigo]
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SeaCoaster
seacoaster
Registered: 01/14/13
Posts: 199
Loc: Va.
City or County: Oakton
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Yea I was reading the Maryland Code and it states...
"Private firearms sellers (persons who are not licensed dealers) must process transfers1 of “regulated firearms” (handguns and assault weapons)2 through a licensed dealer or designated law enforcement agency.3 In addition, no regulated firearm transfers may be made to any person whom the private seller knows or has a reasonable cause to believe is a prohibited purchaser under state law."
"Private sales of standard rifles and shotguns are not required to be processed through a licensed dealer, and purchasers are not subject to background checks."
So I guess Standard Rifles and Shotties are OK.
But Realistically. If you do get that purchasers information and Verify with DL, what is the difference if they are from MD or VA. You have there information and a Signed Bill of SALE. That should cover your butt regardless.
IF you read the Bill of Sale that they are signing it States " CAN Lawfully Receive, possess, ship or transport a firearm."
I guess if I were to add "CAN Legally Purchase Firearm In the STATE OF Maryland"
That would be extra butt coverage. Buying a shotgun from a private seller is ok in Maryland ? Without FFL ?
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#543940 - 06/01/13 08:30 PM
Re: BILL OF SALE -- PROTECT YOURSELF
[Re: Leehubb]
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gunman33
Pea shooter
Registered: 05/25/13
Posts: 6
Loc: va
City or County: richmond
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So what would happened to you if you said I don't have a bill of sale ?
Nothing unless you were involved in trafficking guns...
If you sold a hunting Knife and it was used in a crime in NY what would the cops do ?
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#543941 - 06/01/13 08:31 PM
Re: BILL OF SALE -- PROTECT YOURSELF
[Re: thabigo]
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gunman33
Pea shooter
Registered: 05/25/13
Posts: 6
Loc: va
City or County: richmond
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So what would happened to you if you said I don't have a bill of sale ?
Edited by gunman33 (08/10/13 08:13 PM)
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