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#1350730 - 05/08/18 05:29 PM Bill of Sale question
2Aallday Offline
Single barrel

Registered: 01/30/17
Posts: 28
Loc: Va, USA
City or County: Newport News
Just a quick question, I can't seem to find the answer on a google search. In Va, if you want a bill of sale that would actually work to protecting you should the gun be used in a crime after selling it, does it need to be notarized? In some instructions I found when printing out a bill of sale template, it mentions a notary, but, again, I can't seem to find any solid info saying it NEEDS to be notarized though it would make sense if it does. If so, do both parties need to sign in the presence of the notary? Any help would be great. Thanks.

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#1351209 - 05/10/18 06:45 AM Re: Bill of Sale question [Re: 2Aallday]
lizjimbo Offline
Bolt action

Registered: 05/28/12
Posts: 191
Loc: VA
City or County: FREDERICKSBURG
It is not a crime to sell a gun privately in Virginia. Once sold you are not aware of how the firearm would be used. Just as you are not liable when you sell a car and the new owner gets drunk and runs over a family of five you are not liable for how anther person uses a firearm you sell him. Now that aside, if you knowingly sell a firearm to a person you know to be prohibited from possessing a firearm then you could be in a whole lot of hurt.

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#1351511 - 05/10/18 10:26 PM Re: Bill of Sale question [Re: 2Aallday]
2Aallday Offline
Single barrel

Registered: 01/30/17
Posts: 28
Loc: Va, USA
City or County: Newport News
I understand tat but if someone else uses it in a crime, I submitted to a background check to buy the gun originally, so once they match me up with the serial number, or get whatever info they might need from the FFL to match it with an owner, wouldn't that tie me in to the gun? I know private sales are legal, I'm just making sure that if it were to be used for a crime after I sold it that my butt is covered

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#1351617 - 05/11/18 10:36 AM Re: Bill of Sale question [Re: 2Aallday]
Alkristin Offline
I'm a man, just flesh and bones

Registered: 01/25/11
Posts: 461
Loc: Va-Ginny!
City or County: Chantilly
Just make sure that you have the Billis sale, and you keep it in a safe place. If you’re ever contacted by law-enforcement concerning that firearm, just show them the bill of sale. If they want to take it with them as evidence, make sure you get a copy before you hand it over, or get a receipt.

I myself take it one step further and take a photograph of the persons’ drivers license. I give them a copy of my drivers license to, just to keep it on the up and up.
_________________________
Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled guns yearning to shoot free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming safes and gun racks.

Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door of my workbench.

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#1351730 - 05/11/18 04:39 PM Re: Bill of Sale question [Re: 2Aallday]
rromeo Offline
Full Auto

Registered: 07/06/10
Posts: 1473
Loc: Chesapeake Bay
City or County: Eastern Shore
Originally Posted By: 2Aallday
I understand tat but if someone else uses it in a crime, I submitted to a background check to buy the gun originally, so once they match me up with the serial number, or get whatever info they might need from the FFL to match it with an owner, wouldn't that tie me in to the gun? I know private sales are legal, I'm just making sure that if it were to be used for a crime after I sold it that my butt is covered


The only one that can answer your question 100% is the commonwealth's attorney that would be handling your case. All of the rest of us are making guesses.
_________________________
Never initiate force against another. But should someone do violence to you, retaliate without hesitation, without reservation, without quarter, until you are sure that he will never wish to harm - or never be capable of harming - you or yours again.

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#1352123 - 05/12/18 04:14 PM Re: Bill of Sale question [Re: 2Aallday]
lizjimbo Offline
Bolt action

Registered: 05/28/12
Posts: 191
Loc: VA
City or County: FREDERICKSBURG
Originally Posted By: 2Aallday
I understand tat but if someone else uses it in a crime, I submitted to a background check to buy the gun originally, so once they match me up with the serial number, or get whatever info they might need from the FFL to match it with an owner, wouldn't that tie me in to the gun? I know private sales are legal, I'm just making sure that if it were to be used for a crime after I sold it that my butt is covered


A notary does not make a bill of sale anymore official than the buyers signature and your verification of who the buyer is. If they use a phony ID with you they would use it with a notary. If you have a good bs detector, use that. You do not have to sell your firearm to anyone if you don't feel good about it.

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#1352544 - 05/13/18 08:32 PM Re: Bill of Sale question [Re: 2Aallday]
MP3Mogul Offline
VAGT Staff

Registered: 01/14/09
Posts: 6084
Loc: Salem, Virginia
City or County: Salem
I can answer... no, it would not need to be notarized... but it would need to have "accurate" information... i.e. you would need to make sure the information that you gathered on the BOS is accurate. I personally only do them if a member asks. I can articulate that I sold such and such gun, with no documentation, since our laws do not require them, same as a yard sale... I don't mean to compare it to that, but our laws protect the seller.

It pays, to not be a nefarious person, to be around family, friends, etc, so that you can account as to where you were.

I gladly give a BOS if someone asks... but i don't require it... I like to purchase the same way unless I'm purchasing from a local fun store.

With that said, I "require" in each transaction that a member has a CHP now, since felons can regain their right to vote. I show my CHP, and they show their CHP. If you do a bill of sale, simply copy the CHP number down... it's not personal, it's not a DL number, a SSN, or DOB... with today's day and age, and with identity theft at it's highest ever, it's prudent to do so.

If someone is "fearful" of you copying their CHP number down, and one or the other wants a BOS, simply move one. I would hope that none of us, myself included is in that much need of cash.

I have never sold a firearm on here, or anywhere else for the price that I originally paid for it... I have always sold them for a loss.... with that said, happy selling! It's not rocket science... but be prudent!
_________________________
USMC Retired
Semper-Fi

"We're surrounded. That simplifies the problem."
Chesty Puller

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#1364493 - 06/15/18 10:35 AM Re: Bill of Sale question [Re: 2Aallday]
user Offline
F.O.G. (Fat Old Geezer)

Registered: 01/14/09
Posts: 656
Loc: Broad Run, VA.
City or County: Fauquier
My bill of sale form is designed to provide the legal protections required for both buyer and seller - email me at vgt@defenserights.org for a copy in pdf format. This form is strictly for the use of the parties, and is not to be "registered" in any way - it's simply a device to provide legal protection should that defense ever become necessary.
_________________________
Absent an express agreement to the contrary, I always assume all items are subject to prior sale.
I regard it as a matter of required courtesy to communicate changes in status so as to avoid having to make a trip for nothing.

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#1375633 - 07/17/18 07:17 AM Re: Bill of Sale question [Re: MP3Mogul]
lizjimbo Offline
Bolt action

Registered: 05/28/12
Posts: 191
Loc: VA
City or County: FREDERICKSBURG
Not sure if anyone knows this...but a person convicted of a felony can not only get their voting rights restored but they can also get their firearm rights restored and they can get a concealed carry permit as well. Maybe we should sell to anybody...just to be safe!

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#1375797 - 07/17/18 01:52 PM Re: Bill of Sale question [Re: 2Aallday]
KendrasEdge757 Offline
Si Vis Pacem Para Bellum

Registered: 06/25/18
Posts: 250
Loc: VA
City or County: Isle Of White, Smithfield
I actually had BATFE Agents come to my house, because a handgun that I originally purchased new was used in a crime in NY. I had sold the firearm approximately eight months prior. I couldn’t find the bill of sale at the time and because a bos isn’t required in VA it didn’t matter. The agents just wanted to try and trace it back to how it got to NY so I told them the individuals name I sold it to as they were a neighbor and they went to find who my neighbor sold it to after that and so on. Sometimes they can’t do that because A private sale in VA doesn’t require anything outside of seeing ID to prove they’re of legal age to purchase said firearm. You could forget who bought it w/out a bos. We have no way of knowing background or felon status and are not liable for anything that happens down the line with the firearm. A bos is just a way to feel better and “prove” you no longer owned the firearm from that date forward. Again, as of today, a bos isn’t required.
_________________________
Amendment II, US Constitution

....A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed...

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#1382550 - 08/03/18 07:30 AM Re: Bill of Sale question [Re: 2Aallday]
user Offline
F.O.G. (Fat Old Geezer)

Registered: 01/14/09
Posts: 656
Loc: Broad Run, VA.
City or County: Fauquier
actually, "seeing ID" is not required, either. Selling a gun in Va. is exactly like selling a pencil, unless you have some reason to know or be aware that the person you're selling to is ineligible to be in possession of a firearm. If you were charged with an illegal sale, the Commonwealth would have to prove that you had actual knowledge, or some reason why you should have had actual knowledge ("constructive knowledge"). Reckless disregard for the truth in this case is not enough.

Here's an example of what happens most frequently: the buyer says something like, "I'm not entirely certain that it's OK for me to buy a gun, because of what happened when I was 16 years old, back in the Spotsylvania Circuit Court.", and the seller says, "I don't need to know about that, just hand over the cash and you get the gun." Even though the seller had no actual knowledge of anything, what the buyer said was enough to create constructive knowledge. It's as if there were a legal duty to inquire and find out the truth, once someone puts you on notice that there may be a problem.

My bill of sale form functions as an affidavit under Va. law, so the buyer is swearing under penalty of perjury that he has no knowledge of any reason why he might be ineligible to purchase a gun. That's the best protection for the seller, who can use that piece of paper to prove that he not only had no knowledge of the defect, but that the purchaser swore to him that there was no defect. That kind of defense to a criminal charge is called, "actual innocence".
_________________________
Absent an express agreement to the contrary, I always assume all items are subject to prior sale.
I regard it as a matter of required courtesy to communicate changes in status so as to avoid having to make a trip for nothing.

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