Who's Online
21 registered (caneau, JimmyJuice, Unit_181, Rneurohr, Aaron515, DerekH, docken87, jpalm40, Unknown_User, 1deerslayer, Ron1009, Thammer, Headhog, BigRed247, Monster9, DougN, 5 invisible), 18 Guests and 13 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Page 1 of 2 1 2 >
Topic Options
#174301 - 07/30/11 01:26 AM HOW TO SHIP FIREARMS: A PRIMER
boydjd Offline
Addicted

Registered: 06/14/09
Posts: 660
Loc: Ashburn, VA
City or County: Loudoun
Shipping Firearms

This question comes up time and time again, and I'm sick of typing out the same things over and over again in the shoutbox and in posts.

It is perfectly legal to ship a firearm in-state between individuals, without involving a licensed dealer.

I'll refer you to the ATF to prove this, because you won't believe me:

http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/unlicensed-persons.html#shipping-firearms-carrier

Quote:
Q: May a nonlicensee ship a firearm by common or contract carrier?
A nonlicensee may ship a firearm by a common or contract carrier to a resident of his or her own State or to a licensee in any State. A common or contract carrier must be used to ship a handgun. In addition, Federal law requires that the carrier be notified that the shipment contains a firearm and prohibits common or contract carriers from requiring or causing any label to be placed on any package indicating that it contains a firearm.

[18 U.S.C. 922(a)(2)(A), 922(a) (3), 922(a)(5) and 922(e), 27 CFR 478.31 and 478.30]

Okay, now we have that covered.

So, how do we go about shipping a firearm in-state?

First of all, the box you put the firearm should not be marked in anyway to indicate that it is indeed a firearm.

Rifles

Rifles are easy. Put them in a box. Take them to the counter at the post office. Inform the clerk that you are shipping a rifle. You're required by federal law to inform the shipper that the package contains firearms. There's no additional fee to ship a rifle. Standard postage applies. If you're smart, you'll pay for delivery confirmation and insurance.

Pistols

Pistols are a pain in the [potty-mouth]. USPS won't accept them. You can ship them via FedEx or UPS. Both carriers require that you ship from a hub, and that you use overnight service to do so.

Shipping firearms out of state

It's legal for a non-licensee (you) to ship a firearm to a licensee (an FFL). You will need a copy of the licensee's FFL, and you can check it with the ATF here:

https://www.atfonline.gov/fflezcheck/

Same deal. Ship a rifle via USPS, ship handguns via UPS/Fedex. Some FFLs are a pain about accepting shipments from individuals, so make sure the buyer has cleared the shipment first.

Note, it is sometimes cheaper to pay an FFL to do the transfer for you on a pistol, because, surprise, the USPS allows handgun shipments by licensees.

Additional references:
http://www.thegunzone.com/ship-guns.html


Edited by boydjd (07/30/11 01:32 AM)

Top
#174302 - 07/30/11 01:30 AM Re: HOW TO SHIP FIREARMS: A PRIMER [Re: boydjd]
geauxnavy80 Offline
Ragin' Cajun

Registered: 12/19/10
Posts: 305
Loc: Virginia
City or County: Virginia Beach/Norfolk
THANK YOU FOR CLEARING THAT UP! I can deal with hearing "rumors" or the underground talk about what SHOULD happen, BUT..you cited something credible here. I like it. Thanks!
_________________________
God made men, Sam Colt made them equal.

Top
#174308 - 07/30/11 01:44 AM Re: HOW TO SHIP FIREARMS: A PRIMER [Re: geauxnavy80]
stockram Offline
Sharp Shooter

Registered: 08/10/10
Posts: 2453
Loc: louisa
City or County: louisa
thanks boyd...maybe this should be a sticky?

Top
#174313 - 07/30/11 01:54 AM Re: HOW TO SHIP FIREARMS: A PRIMER [Re: stockram]
Edchaos Offline
Bolt action

Registered: 07/24/11
Posts: 142
Loc: Virginia
City or County: Roanoke
thanks boyd

Top
#174314 - 07/30/11 01:57 AM Re: HOW TO SHIP FIREARMS: A PRIMER [Re: stockram]
Ledchunkr Offline
Just a 'nuther grunt

Registered: 04/03/09
Posts: 4200
Loc: just south of Richmond,VA
City or County: tri cities
We'll make 'er a sticky - can't have Boyd getting all sick on us again grin

(his "smiley" face looks all miffed too !)


Edited by Ledchunkr (07/30/11 01:58 AM)
_________________________
Prepping is good, but prepping without Jesus is like drilling holes in the boat. Acts 2:37-38/Proverbs 1:24-33
-----------

www.alt-market.com/


Top
#174318 - 07/30/11 02:08 AM Re: HOW TO SHIP FIREARMS: A PRIMER [Re: Ledchunkr]
boydjd Offline
Addicted

Registered: 06/14/09
Posts: 660
Loc: Ashburn, VA
City or County: Loudoun
Originally Posted By: Ledchunkr
We'll make 'er a sticky - can't have Boyd getting all sick on us again grin

(his "smiley" face looks all miffed too !)


Thanks! smile

Top
#174520 - 07/30/11 04:09 PM Re: HOW TO SHIP FIREARMS: A PRIMER [Re: boydjd]
90lxtc Offline
Poison Boooooolit......

Registered: 06/13/10
Posts: 3511
Loc: VA
City or County: Caroline county
this is going in my Quick link folder! X2 on being a Sticky!
_________________________
Si vis pacem, para bellum

2ND Amendment Civilians Are The USA True Reserve.

Top
#174739 - 07/30/11 11:43 PM Re: HOW TO SHIP FIREARMS: A PRIMER [Re: 90lxtc]
zombiedefense Offline
Home of AR A' la carte

Registered: 11/12/09
Posts: 672
Loc: Henrico 23228
City or County: Glen Allen
It's legal for a non-licensee (you) to ship a firearm to a licensee (an FFL). You will need a copy of the licensee's FFL, and you can check it with the ATF here:
an individual does not need an FFL copy to ship, The shipper needs to ship to an FFL out of state and they need FFL verification. The receiving FFL needs a copy of the individuals licence that is shipping from out of state.
Yes, the individual could lie and send anyones Drivers license with the shipment. It protects the LEGAL firearms dealer. There are many on gunbroker that present themselves as dealers, and are in fact a private party.
Hence the reason gunbroker started the FFL icon with the seller
_________________________
www.zombie-defense.com
http://zdguns.com/auctions.html
link to buy now button for lowers
8736 Landmark rd.
Henrico Va 23228
804-972-3991

Top
#174747 - 07/31/11 12:01 AM Re: HOW TO SHIP FIREARMS: A PRIMER [Re: zombiedefense]
dk148 Offline
Domestic Arms Dealer

Registered: 11/21/08
Posts: 2532
Loc: Bowling Green, VA
City or County: Bowling Green
Let me add some confusion to this.

An FFL is not require to send a copy of their license to a non FFL.

Gunbroker has been telling this lie for so long, people believe it.

http://www.atf.gov/publications/newsletters/ffl/ffl-newsletter-2008-11.pdf

From the above link:

PROVIDING COPIES OF FEDERAL LICENSEES TO UNLICENSED PERSONS

A person not licensed under the Gun Control Act of 1968 (GCA), and not prohibited from acquiring firearms, may purchase a firearm from an out-of-State source and obtain the firearm, in-state, if an arrangement is made with a Federal firearms licensee in the purchaser’s State of residence. A firearm may be transferred to the in-state licensee, who then completes the transfer to the unlicensed person, also completing the ATF Form 4473 and Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) national Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS) requirements.
Section 27 CFR 478.94 requires licensees to verify the identity and licensed status prior to transferring a firearm to a person who states they are licensed to receive it. “Verification shall be established by the transferee furnishing to the transferor a certified copy of the transferee’s license and by such other means as the transferor deems necessary…” This section does not apply to transfers between a licensee and an unlicensed person.

Confused yet? A dealer can basically provide you with the first 3 and last 5 digits of their license # and a link to the ATF ez check site to verify their address.

Most FFL's will send out a copy of their license, to a non-FFL even though they are not require to. Mostly because it is impossible to explain to someone that they are not required to send it.

One other point, FFL's can ship handguns through the USPS, which is sooooo much cheaper then shipping next day air through Fed EX or UPS. Even with a outgoing transfer fee of $15.00 and actual shipping charged by USPS, you can usually get a handgun shipped for $30.00 or less (depending on the amount of insurance you want to add). Flat rate boxes are great!
_________________________
DK Firearms
202 North Main Street
Bowling Green, VA 22427
804-633-2222
Monday- Saturday 11:00am-7:00pm
https://dkfirearms.com/
sales@dkfirearms.com
https://www.facebook.com/dkfirearmsllc




Top
#175785 - 08/01/11 12:15 PM Re: HOW TO SHIP FIREARMS: A PRIMER [Re: dk148]
Edchaos Offline
Bolt action

Registered: 07/24/11
Posts: 142
Loc: Virginia
City or County: Roanoke
what defin's a firearm? in other words if i send a rifle without the bolt is that considered a rifle (firearm)? And then send the bolt in another package could they be sent to an individual?

Top
#175790 - 08/01/11 12:23 PM Re: HOW TO SHIP FIREARMS: A PRIMER [Re: Edchaos]
boydjd Offline
Addicted

Registered: 06/14/09
Posts: 660
Loc: Ashburn, VA
City or County: Loudoun
Originally Posted By: Edchaos
what defin's a firearm? in other words if i send a rifle without the bolt is that considered a rifle (firearm)? And then send the bolt in another package could they be sent to an individual?


No, you can't do that, not out of state atleast. If you're shipping in state, then you just ship the whole thing all together. Well, out of state too. But it has to go to a licensee. The serialized receiver is the firearm.

Quote:
(3) The term “firearm” means
(A) any weapon (including a starter gun) which will or is designed to or may readily be converted to expel a projectile by the action of an explosive;
(B) the frame or receiver of any such weapon;
(C) any firearm muffler or firearm silencer; or
(D) any destructive device. Such term does not include an antique firearm.


http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/18/921.html


Edited by boydjd (08/01/11 09:37 PM)

Top
#176750 - 08/02/11 06:30 PM Re: HOW TO SHIP FIREARMS: A PRIMER [Re: boydjd]
srwshooter Offline
Sharp Shooter

Registered: 01/07/10
Posts: 2139
Loc: grottoes,va.24441
City or County: augusta co.
no matter where you ship ALWAYS INSURE AND GET DELIVERY COMFIRMATION. i've seen lots of stuff lost in the mail,without delivery comfirmation you will not know if the buyer got it or not ,if there's problem.

also anyone that ships a gun that does not have a box for it
i build my own boxes to ship in. finding a good box for a long gun can be a real pain.

make a frame out of 2 1/2 in wide osb plywood and screw it together,the staple flat cardboard to both sides. i buy bubble wrap in rolls at walmart. make the box a 1/2in longer then your gun the wrap it up real good. stuff it as full as you can to keep it from bouncing around in the box. tip; find a old tv box use the old packing foam to get it in the box tight. then staple the other side on. i then wrap all corners with box tape and tape my own label on it really well. i've done so many of these that it only takes me a few minutes to build one.

beleive me you will not regret spending a little extra time packaging a firearm. its not fun doing damage claims with the shipper. they are a real PITA to deal with.

any time you can,break a gun down to make it short as possible,
the usps will measure the size of your box and add charges for longer boxes,so pack them small as possible.

hope this helps.

steve
_________________________
gun or camera,either way i'm shootin!

Top
#177010 - 08/02/11 10:33 PM Re: HOW TO SHIP FIREARMS: A PRIMER [Re: boydjd]
bustedknee Offline
Curmudgeon

Registered: 02/17/10
Posts: 1539
Loc: Southwest Va
City or County: Wythe
Originally Posted By: boydjd
Shipping Firearms

This question comes up time and time again, and I'm sick of typing out the same things over and over again in the shoutbox and in posts.

It is perfectly legal to ship a firearm in-state between individuals, without involving a licensed dealer.

....



Thank you,

Thank you,

Thank you.

I have explained the law on this site so many times my lips turned blue.

I GAVE UP!

Apparently there are many transplanted Yankees and other "people" in VA that want to surrender our gun rights and they simply refuse to believe it.

They won't accept ID's of any kind (I have VA DL, C&R license, and Carry Permit). They long for a way to do a background check on their neighbors. They insist on face-to-face on deals because they are convinced they will go to prison if the gun should ever fall into the hands of criminal.

This board is becoming more and more of a humorous parody of a gun trading venture. Used Glocks for $750! Used RIA 45 for $500! Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahha I'm Laughing my butt off.

I have asked guys to call ATF to verfy the procedure. One simple phone call.
Nope, they want to live like they are in New York or California.

And we wonder where our gun rights went. They were pissed away!

Good luck and thanks for trying.

Standby for blue lips.
_________________________
"I am old, sick, and tired of living. If you feel the need to mess with me, go right ahead."
My Uncle, with his hand on his pistol (in his pocket), talking to a troublemaker.

Top
#179982 - 08/07/11 11:01 PM Re: HOW TO SHIP FIREARMS: A PRIMER [Re: bustedknee]
Walkabout Offline
Double barrel

Registered: 01/18/11
Posts: 99
Loc: Virginia
City or County: Rockingham Co.
So, dumb question here.

Is the mailing address enough to verify who you sold the gun to? If so, then why all the hype about CCP and voter registration cards? Forgive me as I am all new to this.

Top
#179989 - 08/07/11 11:22 PM Re: HOW TO SHIP FIREARMS: A PRIMER [Re: Walkabout]
joetinva Offline
Bolt action

Registered: 03/02/09
Posts: 111
Loc: Fredericksburg, VA
City or County: Fredericksburg
There is really no legal requirement to see all those documents other than to verify the buyer is old enough and is a resident of your state. The law basically says you must not sell to a person that you KNOW to be a prohibited person. The CCW and voter cards show you are a state resident and the CCW shows you are not a felon, at least on the date it was issued. But again, the law does not tell you, as a private seller what documents to check. If you have no reason to believe the person is prohibited, under age or does not live in VA, you don't need to check anything. I don't know of any case-law dealing with a private seller who unknowingly sold to a prohibited person.


Edited by joetinva (08/07/11 11:24 PM)

Top
#179996 - 08/07/11 11:50 PM Re: HOW TO SHIP FIREARMS: A PRIMER [Re: Walkabout]
boydjd Offline
Addicted

Registered: 06/14/09
Posts: 660
Loc: Ashburn, VA
City or County: Loudoun
Originally Posted By: Walkabout
So, dumb question here.

Is the mailing address enough to verify who you sold the gun to? If so, then why all the hype about CCP and voter registration cards? Forgive me as I am all new to this.



You can send it signature required, if you're worried about it. CCP/voter registration is people doing whatever makes them comfortable. Some people might want a scanned copy of your drivers license to ship to you. Some might be fine seeing that you've done plenty of deals on here before and you tell them that you aren't a felon.

Top
#179999 - 08/07/11 11:55 PM Re: HOW TO SHIP FIREARMS: A PRIMER [Re: joetinva]
Walkabout Offline
Double barrel

Registered: 01/18/11
Posts: 99
Loc: Virginia
City or County: Rockingham Co.
So, if someone tells me that they are of age and are not prohibited from buying a firearm and here is my address then that is all I would need as a seller to make a legal sale.

Top
#180005 - 08/08/11 12:02 AM Re: HOW TO SHIP FIREARMS: A PRIMER [Re: Walkabout]
boydjd Offline
Addicted

Registered: 06/14/09
Posts: 660
Loc: Ashburn, VA
City or County: Loudoun
Originally Posted By: Walkabout
So, if someone tells me that they are of age and are not prohibited from buying a firearm and here is my address then that is all I would need as a seller to make a legal sale.


Correct. Same deal FTF, you aren't legally obligated to get their name and address then either. It makes people feel better though. The only requirement is that you have no reason to suspect that the person is not legally able to possess a weapon.

Top
#180012 - 08/08/11 12:11 AM Re: HOW TO SHIP FIREARMS: A PRIMER [Re: boydjd]
Walkabout Offline
Double barrel

Registered: 01/18/11
Posts: 99
Loc: Virginia
City or County: Rockingham Co.
thanks for alll the knowledge.

Top
#187953 - 08/21/11 09:36 AM Re: HOW TO SHIP FIREARMS: A PRIMER [Re: Walkabout]
ATFmy3favs Offline
former Moderator (site babysitter)

Registered: 05/03/09
Posts: 3636
Loc: Hanover/Mechanicsville
City or County: Hanover/Hampton/VAB/and in between
Chiming in here,
Last time I shipped a pistol it was cheaper to do it through my FFL because they can ship USPS. I also felt better KNOWING the guy on the other end was legit as I had never met him. It was also easier as my local UPS is not close by, FEDEX is but they were crazy priced.
Just my two cents. Do what you like. I would absolutely ship something to someone I already know. If it were cheaper than my FFL.
_________________________
Only two defining forces have ever offered to die for you.
1. Jesus Christ
2. The American G.I.
"One died for your soul, the other for your freedom!"













Top
#265839 - 02/01/12 07:41 AM Re: HOW TO SHIP FIREARMS: A PRIMER [Re: ATFmy3favs]
user Offline
F.O.G. (Fat Old Geezer)

Registered: 01/14/09
Posts: 656
Loc: Broad Run, VA.
City or County: Fauquier
I haven't looked this up lately, but if I recall correctly, before you ship a firearm from one person to another within the same state via common carrier or courier, you have to have an affidavit transferred first. My standard bill of sale form will do what's necessary and you don't need a notary.
_________________________
Absent an express agreement to the contrary, I always assume all items are subject to prior sale.
I regard it as a matter of required courtesy to communicate changes in status so as to avoid having to make a trip for nothing.

Top
#272769 - 02/12/12 09:08 PM Re: HOW TO SHIP FIREARMS: A PRIMER [Re: user]
boydjd Offline
Addicted

Registered: 06/14/09
Posts: 660
Loc: Ashburn, VA
City or County: Loudoun
Originally Posted By: user
I haven't looked this up lately, but if I recall correctly, before you ship a firearm from one person to another within the same state via common carrier or courier, you have to have an affidavit transferred first. My standard bill of sale form will do what's necessary and you don't need a notary.


I would like to know where this law exists, if it does. I have never heard of such a requirement, and have not found it on ATF, the CFR, or the State Police website myself. I may not be looking the right place though.

Top
#388949 - 09/10/12 03:48 PM Re: HOW TO SHIP FIREARMS: A PRIMER [Re: boydjd]
happybucklander Offline
Gun fool

Registered: 04/23/10
Posts: 1024
Loc: Virginia - Prince William Coun...
City or County: Prince William County
Thanks for posting this. Not to be argumentative, but it seems to me that you are NOT required to declare to USPS that you are shipping a rifle or shotgun inside the state. The declaration section in the ATF is for "common or contract carriers" appears to me to be for handguns only. I reviewed the ATF site you quote above and the codes that they reference - Title 18,U.S.C 922(a) subsections and 27 CFR 478.31 and 27 CFR 478.30.

USPS rules are at http://pe.usps.com/text/pub52/pub52c4_009.htm and mention that you "may be required to establish, by opening the parcel or by written certification". This would, obviously only be AFTER you declared what you are shipping, and, I think, logically would apply to FFLs shipping handguns.

But no declaration is required in any document that I see - the Gun Control Act of 1968, USC 18 921, 922 nor USC 27 478.30 or 478.31. You can't ship illegal arms, and only FFLs can use USPS for handguns, and a million other regulations, but I see no requirement to declare to USPS that you're shipping a legal long gun to a legal recipient of the firearm.

I am NOT a lawyer, and NOT giving legal advice, but I see no law or regulation that requires you to inform USPS that you are shipping a long gun of any kind, and I don't believe in making trouble where none is required, nor disclosing more than I'm required. I reviewed all of the links below. Do so yourself and you can decide for yourself.

Someone point out to me where I'm wrong, if I'm missed something, please.

http://www.keepandbeararms.com/laws/gca68.htm
http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/USCODE-2011-title18/pdf/USCODE-2011-title18-partI-chap44-sec921.pdf
http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/USCODE-2011-title18/pdf/USCODE-2011-title18-partI-chap44-sec922.pdf
http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/CFR-2012-title27-vol3/pdf/CFR-2012-title27-vol3-sec478-30.pdf
http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/CFR-2012-title27-vol3/pdf/CFR-2012-title27-vol3-sec478-31.pdf

Top
#429817 - 12/01/12 08:01 AM Re: HOW TO SHIP FIREARMS: A PRIMER [Re: boydjd]
TonyB Offline
What can brown do for you

Registered: 10/09/12
Posts: 254
Loc: VA
City or County: Springfield
THANK YOU BOYD!!! This just helped me tremendously!
_________________________

Top
#445549 - 12/28/12 10:19 PM Re: HOW TO SHIP FIREARMS: A PRIMER [Re: boydjd]
Slateman Offline
Double barrel

Registered: 10/19/12
Posts: 73
Loc: Chantilly
City or County: Fairfax
Okay, silly question.

What do you put for the return address? Your own address? Is that legal?

Top
Page 1 of 2 1 2 >