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#5044 - 12/30/09 10:53 PM
VaGunTrader Offline
The Dictator

Registered: 11/19/08
Posts: 3654
Loc: Dinwiddie County Va
City or County: Sutherland - 23885
A few members have shown concern about newer members on here that are either located in another state or are a resident of another state but claim they are in Virginia and are on this site trying to purchase a firearm.

Don't get yourself in trouble by breaking the law. Educate yourself on the laws.

You never know who your dealing with !!:shock:

These are a copy/paste straight from the ATF website:

A person may sell a firearm to an unlicensed resident of his State, if he does not know or have reasonable cause to believe the person is prohibited from receiving or possessing firearms under Federal law. A person may loan or rent a firearm to a resident of any State for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes, if he does not know or have reasonable cause to believe the person is prohibited from receiving or possessing firearms under Federal law. A person may sell or transfer a firearm to a licensee in any State. However, a firearm other than a curio or relic may not be transferred interstate to a licensed collector.


A person may only acquire a firearm within the person’s own State, except that he or she may purchase or otherwise acquire a rifle or shotgun, in person, at a licensee’s premises in any State, provided the sale complies with State laws applicable in the State of sale and the State where the purchaser resides. A person may borrow or rent a firearm in any State for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes.



A person not licensed under the GCA and not prohibited from acquiring firearms may purchase a firearm from an out-of-State source and obtain the firearm if an arrangement is made with a licensed dealer in the purchaser’s State of residence for the purchaser to obtain the firearm from the dealer.


http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/unlicensed-persons.html#gca-unlicensed-transfer

QUESTIONS ??

COMMENTS ??

SUGGESTIONS??

Please speak up now
_________________________
When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.
Thomas Jefferson

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#5045 - 12/31/09 01:00 AM
oldblue76 Offline
Addicted

Registered: 01/26/09
Posts: 582
Loc: Brandy Station VA
City or County: Culpeper
Thank you very much, I think this post will be helpful to current and future users of this site. Our Commonwealth is reasonable in regards to our 2nd amendment rights, lets all help keep it that way for the next generation.
_________________________
Barry Goldwater 2016.


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#5046 - 01/03/10 07:57 PM
halfded Offline
Gun fool

Registered: 02/03/09
Posts: 726
Loc: Warrenton
City or County: Warrenton
I think the site should be limited to those in VA before it's overrun by basement-run gun shops and scammers and the like.

Just my .02.
_________________________
Make the first shot count.. You might not get another.

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#5047 - 01/04/10 02:11 AM
dontcallmeradio Offline
Double barrel

Registered: 12/02/09
Posts: 73
Loc: Virginia
City or County: Harrisonburg
[user=770]halfded[/user] wrote:
:
I think the site should be limited to those in VA before it's overrun by basement-run gun shops and scammers and the like.

Just my .02.

Amen Brother

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#5048 - 01/04/10 08:42 AM
MP3Mogul Offline
VAGT Staff

Registered: 01/14/09
Posts: 6084
Loc: Salem, Virginia
City or County: Salem
Much Agreed
_________________________
USMC Retired
Semper-Fi

"We're surrounded. That simplifies the problem."
Chesty Puller

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#5049 - 01/04/10 10:51 AM
oneshotonekill Offline
Reach Out And Touch Someone!!!

Registered: 10/22/09
Posts: 1494
Loc: Crozet, Va. 22932
City or County: Crozet
I could not have said it any better I agree as well wink
_________________________
Kindest Regards,

-OneShot

"Death From Afar"

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#5050 - 01/17/10 09:58 PM
bulldawg01 Offline
Addicted

Registered: 01/14/10
Posts: 556
Loc: Pulaski,Virginia
City or County: Pulaski
How many of our fellow Virginians know that you can ship to each other w/out going thru an FFL?

EXAMPLE:

This is a qoute from a fellow member off another forum that mentioned his day at ups office..I would have never believed it myself;but about a week ago I did the same thing.And mine went off w/out a hitch.

This is what he did;and I did the same thing..

I sold a Smith to a Forum member, who is a Virginia resident. I went down to the regional UPS hub and the counter lady helped me wrap the handgun in bubble wrap, after checking the cylinder. However, when I stated that I was shipping to an individual, she balked, saying I could only ship to an FFL or a licensed collector.

I had printed out the UPS firearms section, where it stated "person to person, if not prohibited by law" and the section from the ATF FAQs, where it says that residents of the same state can ship to each other by common carrier.

The counter lady called corporate and I spoke to another customer rep, who repeated the same line. After listening to her, I asked to speak with her supervisor. I repeated the UPS regs and the Federal law to her. After she researched the ATF regs and the UPS guidelines online, she approved my shipment.
_________________________
Lead Me Not Into Temptation;4 I Can Find It Myself!!Whatever It is;I didn't Do it!!!

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#5051 - 01/18/10 11:28 AM
ktyhawk Offline
General Nuisance

Registered: 11/20/08
Posts: 3129
Loc: New Kent
City or County: New Kent County
[user=7667]bulldawg01[/user] wrote:
:
How many of our fellow Virginians know that you can ship to each other w/out going thru an FFL?

EXAMPLE:

This is a qoute from a fellow member off another forum that mentioned his day at ups office..I would have never believed it myself;but about a week ago I did the same thing.And mine went off w/out a hitch.

This is what he did;and I did the same thing..

I sold a Smith to a Forum member, who is a Virginia resident. I went down to the regional UPS hub and the counter lady helped me wrap the handgun in bubble wrap, after checking the cylinder. However, when I stated that I was shipping to an individual, she balked, saying I could only ship to an FFL or a licensed collector.

I had printed out the UPS firearms section, where it stated "person to person, if not prohibited by law" and the section from the ATF FAQs, where it says that residents of the same state can ship to each other by common carrier.

The counter lady called corporate and I spoke to another customer rep, who repeated the same line. After listening to her, I asked to speak with her supervisor. I repeated the UPS regs and the Federal law to her. After she researched the ATF regs and the UPS guidelines online, she approved my shipment.

This is true of long guns, but for handguns???  I thought all handguns had to go through a FFL if shipped, even intrastate.   Can you post the link you found please?

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#5052 - 01/18/10 12:43 PM
bulldawg01 Offline
Addicted

Registered: 01/14/10
Posts: 556
Loc: Pulaski,Virginia
City or County: Pulaski
I called the local sheriff's office and they said a gun does not have to be reregistered anywhere because it has already been registered one time already..So why would you want to get an FFL involved if you don't have to.I shipped a handgun to someone in VaBeach thru UPS and they really had nothing to say..Just fill out all the proper paperwork and get the other person's ID and keep it for ur records just in case something was to happen after it left you and it was registered to you...I tried to find a link;but all I get is BS sites about the government:P..If you want to find out;just go to ur local ups office..If they give you well you can't do that phrase;ask them to show you why you can't..And they won't be able to..:DCommonwealth State has it's own laws!!!:D:D:D:D:dude::dude::shock:[user=31]ktyhawk[/user] wrote:
:
[user=7667]bulldawg01[/user] wrote:
:
How many of our fellow Virginians know that you can ship to each other w/out going thru an FFL?

EXAMPLE:

This is a qoute from a fellow member off another forum that mentioned his day at ups office..I would have never believed it myself;but about a week ago I did the same thing.And mine went off w/out a hitch.

This is what he did;and I did the same thing..

I sold a Smith to a Forum member, who is a Virginia resident. I went down to the regional UPS hub and the counter lady helped me wrap the handgun in bubble wrap, after checking the cylinder. However, when I stated that I was shipping to an individual, she balked, saying I could only ship to an FFL or a licensed collector.

I had printed out the UPS firearms section, where it stated "person to person, if not prohibited by law" and the section from the ATF FAQs, where it says that residents of the same state can ship to each other by common carrier.

The counter lady called corporate and I spoke to another customer rep, who repeated the same line. After listening to her, I asked to speak with her supervisor. I repeated the UPS regs and the Federal law to her. After she researched the ATF regs and the UPS guidelines online, she approved my shipment.

This is true of long guns, but for handguns???  I thought all handguns had to go through a FFL if shipped, even intrastate.   Can you post the link you found please?

_________________________
Lead Me Not Into Temptation;4 I Can Find It Myself!!Whatever It is;I didn't Do it!!!

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#5053 - 01/18/10 11:52 PM
ATFmy3favs Offline
former Moderator (site babysitter)

Registered: 05/03/09
Posts: 3635
Loc: Hanover/Mechanicsville
City or County: Hanover/Hampton/VAB/and in between
Wow, I assumed this was wrong but I checked the ATF site and found:

Quote:



  1. Q: May a nonlicensee ship a firearm by common or contract carrier?
[/*]



A nonlicensee may ship a firearm by a common or contract carrier to a resident of his or her own State or to a licensee in any State. A common or contract carrier must be used to ship a handgun. In addition, Federal law requires that the carrier be notified that the shipment contains a firearm and prohibits common or contract carriers from requiring or causing any label to be placed on any package indicating that it contains a firearm.

[18 U.S.C. 922(a)(2)(A), 922(a) (3), 922(a)(5) and 922(e), 27 CFR 478.31 and 478.30]


Who'd a thunk it????? Why did I not know this? I guess I have to change my site name to ATFidontstudythelawsasmuchasIshould.

Also found this but I should state up front this site link is NOT atf it is private but does have some good information about what to expect from UPS, Fed-X, and the USps.

http://www.thegunzone.com/ship-guns.html

One thing I feel strongly about adding is: If you do mail a firearm to someone, I would think it would have to be someone you know pretty well considering the checking of their Va residency, face to face you can look at their face and the picture and know it is them and that it is valid/current. Electronically things can be altered and you could be sending it to someone who borrowed someones current va drivers license etc. Just a thought.
_________________________
Only two defining forces have ever offered to die for you.
1. Jesus Christ
2. The American G.I.
"One died for your soul, the other for your freedom!"













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#5054 - 01/22/10 04:40 PM
Seraph ShadowCell Offline


Registered: 11/27/08
Posts: 331
This is also worth checking:

http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?000+cod+TOC

always need to compare your state law/code with fed laws/regs


http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?101+ful+HB106

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#5055 - 01/30/10 12:05 AM
.308holes Offline
Addicted

Registered: 12/05/08
Posts: 509
Loc: Post Oak / Spotsylvania
City or County: Spotsylvania
Lets go with Virginians only.

Mods / admin, can we do this? I don't think we will get friction from members that are FROM Va.

Another issue:   http://www.vaguntrader.com/view_topic.php?id=10185&forum_id=3&jump_to=57115
_________________________
Snipers supporting Snipers.
www.AmericanSnipers.org

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#5056 - 01/31/10 10:32 AM
duramaxpower Offline


Registered: 12/11/08
Posts: 21
Loc: Lynchburg
City or County: lynchburg

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#5057 - 01/31/10 07:01 PM
jluellen Offline
Sheepdog

Registered: 02/10/09
Posts: 1463
Loc: Prince William County, VA
City or County: Dumfries
I would say we should do one of the following in order of precidence.

 

1. Make the site avail only to VA residents, or military personnel stationed in VA.

 

2. Create an "out of state" section so that the members dont have to worry about what state someone is in unless they specifically go to that State...

 

Thanks!
_________________________
The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly; who errs and comes short again and again; but who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement and who at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly. So that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who know neither victory nor defeat.� -Theodore Roosevelt quotes


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#5058 - 02/01/10 11:07 AM
oneshotonekill Offline
Reach Out And Touch Someone!!!

Registered: 10/22/09
Posts: 1494
Loc: Crozet, Va. 22932
City or County: Crozet
[user=830]jluellen[/user] wrote:
:
I would say we should do one of the following in order of precidence.

 

1. Make the site avail only to VA residents, or military personnel stationed in VA.

 

2. Create an "out of state" section so that the members dont have to worry about what state someone is in unless they specifically go to that State...

 

Thanks!

I think the bolded text sounds great dammit I am glad to be an Virginian I feel that this is our site so why give them a reason to be here as for #2 nope don't even give them a reason to clog the site these guys should have plenty of outlets in there area to B/S/T what do you think guys????
_________________________
Kindest Regards,

-OneShot

"Death From Afar"

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#5059 - 02/02/10 06:02 PM
Mall Punisher Offline
Gun fool

Registered: 03/28/09
Posts: 704
Loc: VA
City or County: Poquoson
The scarier part still is member(s) trying to unload Class III stuffs and newbies don't know that Class III requires paperwork done before hand.  I know one dude claims you can make full auto Class III stuffs at home before BATF approval and it's your decision when to ask.  That doesn't make any sense since you don't get to make stuffs until such stuffs are approved after the extended wait time. 

IT IS NOT OK TO ASK FOR FORGIVENESS INSTEAD OF PERMISSION WHEN IT COMES TO BATF OR OTHER GOVERNMENT OFFICIAL.

Surprisingly all of his Class III stuffs sold right away when I brought the topic.  No one want it before.  He could be a desperate fed or some scammer selling junk.  I think we need to get rid of Class III section or make posters post the the entire regulation in each of their listing.  On the topic of outsiders, we should ban them since nothing good can come from people wanting to travel hundreds of miles to pick up something their state already sell.  I personally ran into a Marylander trying to pick something up from me.  He wasted my time driving up to Tyson Corner (60 miles away) and try to pull a fast one by flashing the cash instead of his ID.  He also showed up with another person in a VA tagged car to fool some people in the excitement of making a sale.  If it wasn't against the law to drop kick someone, he surely would have gotten stomped for being stupid. 

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#5060 - 02/05/10 07:41 PM
VAKnight Offline


Registered: 02/04/10
Posts: 25
Loc: Virginia
City or County: Hanover
I may be new here, but I am with Mall Punisher on this issue.

I would agree with his advice, but with a minor modification. I would have a locked post set up (anyone with admin privs can mod at any time...I have run a few forums in my days) reminding people of the Class III rules and also listing only Class III dealers that WANT to be listed, and recommend that people seek out the Class III dealers for Class III issues.

The last thing we need is some nutcase lib saying people are trying to move machine guns on the web. Lord knows...somehow the forum owner/owners may get hit one day with aiding and abedding. Those feds don't play around much.

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#5061 - 02/05/10 10:38 PM
Mall Punisher Offline
Gun fool

Registered: 03/28/09
Posts: 704
Loc: VA
City or County: Poquoson
[user=8507]VAKnight[/user] wrote:
:
I may be new here, but I am with Mall Punisher on this issue.

I would agree with his advice, but with a minor modification. I would have a locked post set up (anyone with admin privs can mod at any time...I have run a few forums in my days) reminding people of the Class III rules and also listing only Class III dealers that WANT to be listed, and recommend that people seek out the Class III dealers for Class III issues.

The last thing we need is some nutcase lib saying people are trying to move machine guns on the web. Lord knows...somehow the forum owner/owners may get hit one day with aiding and abedding. Those feds don't play around much.

Feds do not play.  Nor do police wanting to make a career for themselves.  Nothing sounds better for a career than a front page article about how he/she kept guns off the streets.

There is an African American police that always show up at Fredericksburg gun show.  He is tall, in his mid to late 30s or possibly his early 40s but he dress like he's in his 20s.  He walks around like normally and once in awhile pull out a wad of cash and start counting.  At first I thought he was some well-off fellow or possibly a hood guy because he dress like one.  I found out he's a cop when I walked out to my car to put away a few thousands rounds of x39 and saw him getting out of an unmarked car.  I made it a mission to follow him around and see what he does.  He actually monitor some people making private transaction to see if they check each other ID according to the law.  He even showed interest on a few items.  I don't know if he actually buy them to see if the law is followed or not but I do know he's on the job at all of the Fredericksburg show.  I don't see him in Richmond or Chantilly so I think he's Fredericksburg city cop.

I agree that the original listing can't be change.

As for the Class III listings that I had issue with on this forum, I notice that listing kept getting refreshed even though it had been moved to "Sold" section and no-one made any new post on it.  That tells me someone is viewing it or doing something to refresh it.



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#5062 - 03/11/10 09:45 AM
ktyhawk Offline
General Nuisance

Registered: 11/20/08
Posts: 3129
Loc: New Kent
City or County: New Kent County
A person may only acquire a firearm within the person’s own State, except that he or she may purchase or otherwise acquire a rifle or shotgun, in person, at a licensee’s premises in any State, provided the sale complies with State laws applicable in the State of sale and the State where the purchaser resides. A person may borrow or rent a firearm in any State for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes.

This is from the OP's post.  Does this mean it IS legal for a resident of VA to do a FTF for a rifle with a NC resident?  As far as I can see the standards are the same in both VA and NC, but I'm to dense to figure out if the above precludes such a transaction.

In rengrish prease?

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#5063 - 03/11/10 10:52 AM
Quaato Offline
LEADER of the MUTANTS

Registered: 09/21/09
Posts: 140
Loc: Salem, VA
City or County: Salem
[user=31]ktyhawk[/user] wrote:
:
Does this mean it IS legal for a resident of VA to do a FTF for a rifle with a NC resident?


No, any transactions with someone not residing in your same state MUST be handled through an FFL. Although, it is possible to meet them in person at an FFL dealers location.

_________________________
Quaato - Protecting my American freedoms with com-bloc mil-surps.

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#5064 - 03/24/10 10:30 AM
Glockwise Offline
Got Glock?

Registered: 03/23/10
Posts: 526
Loc: Northern Virginia
City or County: Ashburn
This is a great resource. I just wanted to make two comments.

1. Only FFL's can ship weapons through the Post Office. Check with USPS regs for the particulars. Non-licensees can legally ship through commercial carriers, such as UPS and Fedex. I believe the only restriction is that it has to be air freight and not ground transportation.

2. Guns are not registered in the state of Virginia. Background checks only list the type of gun; the background check is destroyed after approval unless you have a UPIN. There is no database for serial numbers, owners, or purchase information.

Of course, this is always subject to change. Always check the current laws and regs.

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#5065 - 03/24/10 10:39 AM
halfded Offline
Gun fool

Registered: 02/03/09
Posts: 726
Loc: Warrenton
City or County: Warrenton
So you're saying that after a gun is purchased all record of who bought it is destroyed?

Meaning that if the State Police ran my serial number, they wouldn't be able to definitively say this is my gun?

There's no way for the ATF to type my name into a database and search all the 4473's my name is on? I thought FFL's were required to keep that paperwork for 20 years?

Not trying to call you out, just like to stay current on all the legal ins and outs.
_________________________
Make the first shot count.. You might not get another.

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#5066 - 03/24/10 10:53 AM
Quaato Offline
LEADER of the MUTANTS

Registered: 09/21/09
Posts: 140
Loc: Salem, VA
City or County: Salem
[user=10212]jerrybyers[/user] wrote:
:
1. Only FFL's can ship weapons through the Post Office.


Please forgive my disagreement with that statement;)...Non-licensees can mail long arms via USPS, but not handguns.

From the USPS web site: "Although unloaded rifles and shotguns not precluded are mailable, mailers must comply with the Gun Control Act of 1968, Public Law 90-618, 18 USC 921, et seq., and the rules and regulations promulgated thereunder 26 CFR 178, as well as state and local laws."
_________________________
Quaato - Protecting my American freedoms with com-bloc mil-surps.

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#5067 - 03/24/10 10:58 AM
Glockwise Offline
Got Glock?

Registered: 03/23/10
Posts: 526
Loc: Northern Virginia
City or County: Ashburn
Yes, I knew that long guns could be shipped through USPS, but there are exceptions to every rule. That is why I mentioned checking with USPS for the particulars.

Here is a good reference for background checks:

http://www.lcav.org/states/virginia.asp#RegistrationofGuns

:
The Department of State Police generally may not maintain dealer background check records longer than 30 days from any request "pertaining to a buyer or transferee who is not found to be prohibited from possessing and transporting a firearm under state or federal law." Va. Code Ann. § 18.2-308.2:2(B)(3). However, records of multiple handgun transactions shall be maintained for twelve months, and the log on all background check requests (which consists of the name of the purchaser, the dealer identification number, the unique approval number and the transaction date), may be maintained for twelve months. Id.

Counties may require sellers of handguns to furnish the clerk of the circuit court "with the name and address of the purchaser, the date of the purchase, and the number, make and caliber of the weapon sold" within 10 days of any handgun sale. Va. Code Ann. § 15.2-1207.

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#5068 - 03/24/10 11:01 AM
Glockwise Offline
Got Glock?

Registered: 03/23/10
Posts: 526
Loc: Northern Virginia
City or County: Ashburn
Here is additional clarification from the same reference:

:
Firearms dealers shall require a prospective purchaser to present one piece of government issued photo-identification, and a separate documentation of residence, before seeking a background check. Section 18.2-308.2:2(B)(1). The DSP must generally process each dealer's background check request "during the dealer's call [to the DSP], or by return call without delay." Section 18.2-308.2:2(B)(2). Virginia law provides that most background checks must be processed by the end of the following business day, or the dealer is free to complete the transfer. Id. A Virginia administrative regulation requires a dealer who processes a transfer because he or she has not received a response from the DSP by the end of the dealer's next business day, to notify DSP of the transfer by telephone. 19 Va. Admin. Code § 30-100-10(A). Non-residents seeking to purchase a handgun are treated differently, and the DSP is allowed up to 10 days to process background checks in those situations. Va. Code Ann. § 18.2-308.2:2(C).

The DSP generally may not maintain dealer background check records longer than 30 days from any request "pertaining to a buyer or transferee who is not found to be prohibited from possessing and transporting a firearm under state or federal law." Section 18.2-308.2:2(B)(3). However, records of multiple handgun transactions shall be maintained for twelve months, and the log on all background check requests (which consists of the name of the purchaser, the dealer identification number, the unique approval number and the transaction date), may be maintained for twelve months. Id. A dealer who requests a background check in connection with an intended sale or transfer of a handgun, which indicates the prospective purchaser or transferee is not a prohibited purchaser, but who nonetheless determines that the sale or transfer will not be completed, must notify the DSP by telephone. 19 Va. Admin. Code § 30-100-10(B). See 6 Va. Admin. Code §§ 20-130-10—20-130-100, and 19 Va. Admin. Code §§ 30-100-10—30-100-110 for additional information regarding the procedures used to perform background checks in Virginia.

Firearm transfers by private sellers (non-firearms dealers) are not subject to background checks, although federal and state purchaser prohibitions still apply.

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