Not one person has ever intended to replace a handgun with a pistol ar. It would be to replace an SBR. I dont even know where to begin on "they aren't as stable as a rifle" as that makes... no sense. But if for some reason you arbitrarily hate pistol ar15s but not sbrs. You do you I guess. I just wonder if maybe you never understood that nobody has ever intended to replace a handgun with one... that is not even part of any debate.

For giggles or because I did not understand: Please explain how a braced pistol ar15 is not "as stable" as the exact same everything but with a stock, so as a short barreled rifle.

But its wrong. An AR pistol is as stable as a 16 inch barreled AR as long as its handled correctly and practiced with. I really could give 2 **I miss Obama** about how long you've owned guns or how long you've collected. Your statements in the beginning about AR pistols being inaccurate and clumsy were based on NOTHING except your own inexperience with them. The point of the AR pistol is not to make it a viable CC gun, or a pistol like a glock 17. The point is to have a firearm similar to that of a SBR without it being a NFA firearm. Rifle caliber, high velocity rounds, 30 round mag. Duh.

Me,after owning a Stoner converted to semi only in the late '70s,really don't care for the modern take on this style of rifle/whatever.Would like to as a question regarding them if possible.

Maybe I'm just a wimp,or too picky,but I've always had an issue with the balance on these arms for distance shooting.Being a dinosaur,the ultimate long range semi auto format was the Garand,and when I had good eyes shooting was done at 600-1000 yards.We'd crimp the enbloc clips to hold 5 rounds,and shoot 10 shot strings.Firing stock 8 round clips was reserved for plinking and running in a fresh barrel.The weight lost from even shooting a five round clip produced a distinct weight shift in the rifle,and burning thru a dozen or so 8 round clips had the zero wandering all over the place.With the (sorry!) fad for big box mags,how do you adjust for the weight loss shooting 30 cartridges,and do the barrels wear out as fast on the current rifles/whatever as I have seen barrels wear out in the early '90s when all that lovely Combloc ordinance came in?

"But its wrong. An AR pistol is as stable as a 16 inch barreled AR as long as its handled correctly and practiced with."




First off, if it were as stable as a 16 inch barreled AR, why would you have it have to be "handled correctly and practiced with". Either it is as stable or it isn't. The pistol braces I have seen are made to allow the forearm to pass through a strap and do not shoulder as solidly as a normal adjustable shoulder stock. But, then again, that is just me voicing my opinion, and apparently the only opinion that counts is yours. In any event, I see you made the very adult decision to list me as someone you would not deal with. I guess I hurt your feelings by not liking your pet. Well, no big loss as far as I'm concerned. I'll just trade with the rest of the fine folks on here, like I've been doing for the last few years.

Please look back to my original question, how did it turn into a pissing match

don't know how,duckin.I'd really like answer to my posed question,would help me understand the facination with that groundhog rifle,lol!

"Please look back to my original question, how did it turn into a pissing match"



Not sure. Voiced my opinion and apparently some just can't handle that. Fragile ego or something.

[quote=dustydog] don't know how,duckin.I'd really like answer to my posed question,would help me understand the facination with that groundhog rifle,lol! [/quote
To answer your question best i can dusty a ar platform is the legos of the gun world, it can be personalized, used for many styles of shooting and not limited to 30 rnd mags.i just find them fun to shoot and barrel life for the average shooter can be 10k rounds

Every firearm should be handled correctly and practiced with. Should be obvious for someone who supposedly has 40+ years of firearms experience. The maxim brace shoulders very well, as do several other brands. I listed you as someone who I won't deal with because you spout foolish statements with no facts to back it up. Smacks of ignorance. Guess what? I don't own any ARs of any variant currently. I'm an AK person. But I've been through enough of them and run enough to know what works. Making a blanket statement about a platform nor working and giving zero facts about why is stupid. You didn't hurt any feelings, I just have an extreme prejudice against FUDDS.

A sbr has a good amount of weaknesses compared to a 16/20 inch rifle but mechanical accuracy is not one of them. With modern optics to remove the sight radius difference a sbr will shoot just as well as a 16 inch ar15. In fact there is less barrel whip and they can out shoot many government profile. Sbrs have reduced lethality due to velocity loss, less dwell time, more parts wear due to overgassing but calling them "inaccurate" is absolute fudd lore. You might say "inaccurate" because the velocity loss reduces max range but at 100 yards many pistols will out shoot a 20 inch.

"Every firearm should be handled correctly and practiced with. Should be obvious for someone who supposedly has 40+ years of firearms experience."




Of course they should, but I was giving you credit for understanding. My error. Your response indicated that additional effort was required to make it as stable as a 16 inch barreled AR. Not sure if that's due to your lack of understanding, or your inability to convey a cogent thought. Oh well, no matter. As to not dealing with me, that's a non issue. I don't deal with self proclaimed know-it-alls that need to resort to name calling when someone holds a different opinion. And, go ahead if you must have the last word, as I am done with you.

I wasn't talking about inherent accuracy, but rather practical accuracy.

I have SBRs and AR pistols. The difference between the two is that (most) pistol braces allow you to strap them to your arm OR shoulder them, like a stock. Look up the SBA3 brace, that one adjusts the length of pull in the exact same way a stock does.

If you see how a SBR might have a place then you must have some inkling that AR pistols give you the same advantages of a SBR without the paperwork and other nonsensical restrictions.


Edit: what in the hell is practical accuracy?

He has no idea.

If you can get a 2 moa group that is more than practical enough for any defensive rifle lol but you know every gun on the internet is 1 moa and everyone benches 400 pounds.

+1 to the question at the end. Accuracy is all inclusive. No such thing as practical or impractical accuracy, it is a measurement.

Thanks,duckin! Referencing the lego idea is probably the clearest way I've heard,sort of what I and others did with cheap Mausers (yes kids,they were cheap at one time) "back in the day".


Wow,the whole thread sorta took a strange turn from its originally sorta whimsical bend,didn't it?

"Edit: what in the hell is practical accuracy?"




Seriously? None of you have ever heard that term? Wow. Inherent accuracy tells us that a 2 inch barreled revolver is probably just as accurate as a 6 inch barreled revolver. Practical accuracy is where the 6 inch barreled revolver will shine. Longer sight radius, more weight out front, etc. will make it easier to shoot and be more accurate with. Can't believe a bunch of "gun guys" never heard of that.

Ok sight radius doesn't matter in 2018 because optics are a thing, and we are talking about rifles.

Ya'll guys get back to the original post,willya! I'm trying to overcome my prejudice of what I consider a inadequate cartridge group in a over complicated arms family AND LEARN SOMETHING.

GEEZE,EVER HEAR THE TERM " ANGELS DANCING ON THE HEAD OF A PIN"?

No, I’ve never known anyone to use the term “practical accuracy”. I did, however, just pull an internet search and I found a couple of articles comparing practical accuracy and precision shooting. They basically say that this is the difference between shooting from a bench with a lead sled and shooting from behind cover, or running around, or shooting from a tree stand.

In my circle, we’ve chosen to credit this “practical accuracy” to the shooters ability to shoot in less than perfect conditions, or under stress, and not the firearm itself.


But let’s get back to how you’re using the term. Choosing the correct ammunition for an AR pistol or SBR will have far more impact on the accuracy of the rifle (or “pistol”) than the sight radius of the iron sights (supposing you’re not using a red dot or variable optic primarily) ever would. As for other factors; carriers, buffer weight, springs and muzzle device choices (not to mention piston systems) tame the mighty 5.56x45 cartridge to the point that you really can’t tell the difference between shooting any number of different barrel lengths.

You could even make the argument that, practically speaking, a SBR or AR “pistol” is much easier to maneuver around tight spaces...or carry around all day.
Smaller barrel lengths can even provide better terminal ballistics with 5.56 under the right circumstances.

I feel this is the right time to AGAIN confirm that you are able to shoulder a pistol brace.

What everyone here is trying to tell you is that your belief that an AR “pistol” is useless doesn’t stand to reason. You can’t fill a cup that’s already full, I guess.

Which cartridge is inadequate? if you don't like one, pick another. The arms family is quite simple.

Sorry sir, I dont use made up fudd lore and terms to describe anything. Next you will tell me a shotgun is the best HD weapon and racking it during a home invasion will scare away the entire mafia to Italy. I'm gonna pull out of this. It gets hard explaining something simple in so much detail. It's like trying to explain how to cook noodles in more than 3 steps, it just hurts trying to dumb it down more than "this=that". Plus Koen seems to be better with words.

I will however say again. There is no measurement difference in using a different word in front of an absolute. Accuracy is a measurement, flat out. Much like adding democratic in front of the word socialism does not make it any less of a form of socialism. Adding practical in front of accuracy is just making up terms. If that's what "gun guys" are supposed to do, I'll gladly not be one and continue by not blaming a platform for my failings.

Who cares. Like what you like... Shoot as good as you can.

Dusty... ARs and AKs are lightweight, accurate and fun to shoot for many. ARs come in a gazzilion calibers and can be made in half a gazzilion more. Basically they are the Chevy SB of the gun world. Most are 5.56 or 7.62x39 (AKs).