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#1974941 - 01/26/23 10:26 AM Re: ATF’s new rule makes just about everything with a pistol brace a short barreled rifle! [Re: twodents]
imaduckin Offline
Gun fool

Registered: 11/12/10
Posts: 890
Loc: moved to SC
City or County: eastern sc
Originally Posted By: twodents
While great, I don't think it'll go anywhere. At least they're trying but they won't have strong support. These need support from the top, and they don't have it.

1 think some dont consider theres alot of folks in high places that have a stake in protecting their rights, im sure theres politicions and others in business that have under the table purchases that could be affected by new atf ruling and it would free up some nfa items also if they could get this tossed. call me clueless but its my opinion
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#1974947 - 01/26/23 10:49 AM Re: ATF’s new rule makes just about everything with a pistol brace a short barreled rifle! [Re: jr45]
Mark S Offline
Mark S

Registered: 04/29/10
Posts: 4041
Loc: Rappahannock County, VA
City or County: Front Royal
Some questions:

1. If a firearm is more than 12" but less than 24", AND less than 4 pounds, would a brace then be 'OK' without it being an SBR?

2. If one were to simply remove the brace, a pistol is then just a pistol, correct?

3. Would even having a brace then make the pistol illegal if not attached?

4. Is there a good way to use a sling with an AR pistol that creates an alternative should want to avoid any further hassle?

I expect this will end up in court pretty quickly? Hopefully, we get a 'stay' and a court will decide on not just the rule itself, but that the ATF went beyond legal authority in making the rule.

In the meantime, what are at the possible work arounds.

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#1975042 - 01/26/23 03:50 PM Re: ATF’s new rule makes just about everything with a pistol brace a short barreled rifle! [Re: Mark S]
jr45 Offline
Full Auto

Registered: 11/30/08
Posts: 1272
Loc: VA
City or County: Stafford
I'll make an attempt to answer.

"1. If a firearm is more than 12" but less than 24", AND less than 4 pounds, would a brace then be 'OK' without it being an SBR?"
-Don't believe it matters. ATF is no longer using worksheet 4999 and taking a stance that if it can be shouldered it's a SBR.

"2. If one were to simply remove the brace, a pistol is then just a pistol, correct?"
-The brace still must be permanently modified so it cannot be re-shouldered.

"3. Would even having a brace then make the pistol illegal if not attached?"
-Yes, if you have a pistol that will fit it...they call it constructive possession.

"4. Is there a good way to use a sling with an AR pistol that creates an alternative should want to avoid any further hassle?"
-Be interesting to see.
This BATF link covers many of the questions

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#1975214 - 01/27/23 07:22 AM Re: ATF’s new rule makes just about everything with a pistol brace a short barreled rifle! [Re: jr45]
Mark S Offline
Mark S

Registered: 04/29/10
Posts: 4041
Loc: Rappahannock County, VA
City or County: Front Royal
TY jr45!

Here is my current plan. Some of my firearms are just too much fun to use with a brace and I'll wait a few months and then start the SBR process should there not be a lawsuit and 'stay' issued by the courts.

Others I may try the 'sling' approach and decide that it works well enough and I switch to a smooth buffer tube.

Another question:
If I have a firearm that I have SBRed and a number of braces all of which can fit that firearm, and I happen to have other pistols without a brace on them is it constructive possession? Maybe I just like to swap braces.


Edited by Mark S (01/27/23 07:23 AM)

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#1975259 - 01/27/23 08:49 AM Re: ATF’s new rule makes just about everything with a pistol brace a short barreled rifle! [Re: Mark S]
jr45 Offline
Full Auto

Registered: 11/30/08
Posts: 1272
Loc: VA
City or County: Stafford
Quote:
Another question:
If I have a firearm that I have SBRed and a number of braces all of which can fit that firearm, and I happen to have other pistols without a brace on them is it constructive possession? Maybe I just like to swap braces.


Not sure. Could be a problem if those braces can fit the other pistols you have...definitely check BATF's site.

Funny thing (and disheartening)...if I'm reading the rule currently, we need to admit to BATF that we are currently in possession of a prohibited item thus; breaking the law, in order for them to give us their permission to keep it. Also, for the $200 tax forbearance, it's not forgiven, just will not be collected by BATF at this time.

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#1975275 - 01/27/23 09:50 AM Re: ATF’s new rule makes just about everything with a pistol brace a short barreled rifle! [Re: jr45]
ktyhawk Offline
General Nuisance

Registered: 11/20/08
Posts: 3691
Loc: New Kent
City or County: New Kent County
There is absolutely NO WAY the ATF is going to be able to process all of the requests for SBRs in the next couple of years. Estimates are that there are millions of braced pistols in the U.S. currently. If just 10-20% of people attempted to comply and go through the SBR route, that is hundreds of thousands of request to be completed. There is absolutely no way they will be able to get those requests processed in time and they know that.


Our only hope is that this "rule" is quickly and successfully challenged in court.
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#1996163 - 03/30/23 08:40 PM Re: ATF’s new rule makes just about everything with a pistol brace a short barreled rifle! [Re: jr45]
Agent19 Offline
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Registered: 01/12/09
Posts: 3681
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#2000166 - 04/12/23 01:57 PM Re: ATF’s new rule makes just about everything with a pistol brace a short barreled rifle! [Re: jr45]
Mark S Offline
Mark S

Registered: 04/29/10
Posts: 4041
Loc: Rappahannock County, VA
City or County: Front Royal
Brace discussion revisited:

From what I've read and watched here's what I think:
1. Is is unlikely there will be no court ordered 'stay' prior to the ATF 'free' SBR application closing.

2. If you SBR an AR and have other uppers and lowers there is no constructive possession case that would be prosecutable.

Couldn't one simply put a rifle tube on a pistol lower and cheek weld or even shoulder it?

Mark S

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#2003213 - 04/23/23 08:44 AM Re: ATF’s new rule makes just about everything with a pistol brace a short barreled rifle! [Re: jr45]
Agent19 Offline
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Registered: 01/12/09
Posts: 3681
Loc: VA
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#2005648 - 05/01/23 05:17 PM Re: ATF’s new rule makes just about everything with a pistol brace a short barreled rifle! [Re: jr45]
Agent19 Offline
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Registered: 01/12/09
Posts: 3681
Loc: VA
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Supreme Court to the rescue???
https://youtu.be/btqTAYf_1Io
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#2006150 - 05/03/23 12:59 PM Re: ATF’s new rule makes just about everything with a pistol brace a short barreled rifle! [Re: Agent19]
Mark S Offline
Mark S

Registered: 04/29/10
Posts: 4041
Loc: Rappahannock County, VA
City or County: Front Royal
While I believe they will 'throwout' Chevron, or at least heavily restrict it, I don't thin that ruling will come in time.

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#2006682 - 05/05/23 11:48 AM Re: ATF’s new rule makes just about everything with a pistol brace a short barreled rifle! [Re: jr45]
Agent19 Offline
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Registered: 01/12/09
Posts: 3681
Loc: VA
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As of the end of April, only 125,000 ATF Form 1’s have been submitted, with the deadline set for May 31, 2023, to receive a free tax stamp and comply with the ruling.


https://www.gunsamerica.com/digest/exclu...idens-new-rule/
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#2011542 - 05/22/23 01:15 PM Re: ATF’s new rule makes just about everything with a pistol brace a short barreled rifle! [Re: jr45]
Agent19 Offline
2A 4 All

Registered: 01/12/09
Posts: 3681
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#2011546 - 05/22/23 01:32 PM Re: ATF’s new rule makes just about everything with a pistol brace a short barreled rifle! [Re: jr45]
Newgunguy Offline
Marksman

Registered: 06/06/17
Posts: 237
Loc: Virginia
City or County: Goochland
If you don't comply, but are still scared, I'll take care of the brace for you.

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#2014895 - 06/03/23 10:11 AM Re: ATF’s new rule makes just about everything with a pistol brace a short barreled rifle! [Re: jr45]
Agent19 Offline
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Registered: 01/12/09
Posts: 3681
Loc: VA
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#2015769 - 06/06/23 08:30 AM Re: ATF’s new rule makes just about everything with a pistol brace a short barreled rifle! [Re: jr45]
Agent19 Offline
2A 4 All

Registered: 01/12/09
Posts: 3681
Loc: VA
City or County: 22973
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I’ll gladly take questionable mean tweets, a strong economy, energy independence and a Respected Country, over high inflation, millions of illegals aliens, mask/ vaccine mandates and pedophile in chief.




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#2018889 - 06/16/23 04:32 PM Re: ATF’s new rule makes just about everything with a pistol brace a short barreled rifle! [Re: jr45]
Agent19 Offline
2A 4 All

Registered: 01/12/09
Posts: 3681
Loc: VA
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I’ll gladly take questionable mean tweets, a strong economy, energy independence and a Respected Country, over high inflation, millions of illegals aliens, mask/ vaccine mandates and pedophile in chief.




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#2033420 - 08/02/23 10:04 AM Re: ATF’s new rule makes just about everything with a pistol brace a short barreled rifle! [Re: jr45]
Agent19 Offline
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Registered: 01/12/09
Posts: 3681
Loc: VA
City or County: 22973
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I’ll gladly take questionable mean tweets, a strong economy, energy independence and a Respected Country, over high inflation, millions of illegals aliens, mask/ vaccine mandates and pedophile in chief.




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#2033830 - 08/03/23 03:35 PM Re: ATF’s new rule makes just about everything with a pistol brace a short barreled rifle! [Re: Agent19]
jr45 Offline
Full Auto

Registered: 11/30/08
Posts: 1272
Loc: VA
City or County: Stafford
Good news update! Hopefully this brace rule be heading to the dumpster.

Federal Appeals Court Finds ATF Pistol B...egular Citizen’

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#2053561 - 10/03/23 12:35 PM Re: ATF’s new rule makes just about everything with a pistol brace a short barreled rifle! [Re: jr45]
Agent19 Offline
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Registered: 01/12/09
Posts: 3681
Loc: VA
City or County: 22973
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I’ll gladly take questionable mean tweets, a strong economy, energy independence and a Respected Country, over high inflation, millions of illegals aliens, mask/ vaccine mandates and pedophile in chief.




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#2053611 - 10/03/23 02:55 PM Re: ATF’s new rule makes just about everything with a pistol brace a short barreled rifle! [Re: jr45]
Gnome Offline
For alt vi har. Og alt vi er.

Registered: 01/01/14
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