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#1632490 - 05/06/20 05:35 AM Handgun ammo availability and venting on gougers
SteveThePirate Offline
Sharp Shooter

Registered: 12/27/13
Posts: 2383
Loc: Fairfax County
City or County: Centreville
I've been seeing quality 9mm at fairly reasonable prices popping up on the normal online retailers regularly (SGAmmo, TargetSportsUSA to name a couple).

I've had a couple interactions with members on this forum selling ammo, and I have to vent a little on them. Guys, if you're selling ammo that is available, in stock, at retailers, demanding a 33% or more premium over current retail price is predatory on people who just aren't tracking availability. I'm all about capitalism, but that's not capitalism, it's theft. I'd like to think our shooting community in VA is better than that.

Am I wrong? Probably, but I'd like to be right.

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#1632663 - 05/06/20 12:06 PM Re: Handgun ammo availability and venting on gougers [Re: SteveThePirate]
v8unleashed Offline
Sharp Shooter

Registered: 04/04/09
Posts: 2479
Loc: nova
City or County: nova
I'm pro capitalism, but....

Are you pro second amendment, but... as well?



How can it be predatory if the information to get a lower price is readily available and people are either too lazy or too busy or too dumb to find it?

How can it be theft if it's a voluntary exchange between two willing market participants?

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#1632665 - 05/06/20 12:12 PM Re: Handgun ammo availability and venting on gougers [Re: SteveThePirate]
Verylargeboots Online   content
Professional FUDD Hater

Registered: 10/10/16
Posts: 494
Loc: VA
City or County: Mechanicsville
Originally Posted By: SteveThePirate
I've been seeing quality 9mm at fairly reasonable prices popping up on the normal online retailers regularly (SGAmmo, TargetSportsUSA to name a couple).

I've had a couple interactions with members on this forum selling ammo, and I have to vent a little on them. Guys, if you're selling ammo that is available, in stock, at retailers, demanding a 33% or more premium over current retail price is predatory on people who just aren't tracking availability. I'm all about capitalism, but that's not capitalism, it's theft. I'd like to think our shooting community in VA is better than that.

Am I wrong? Probably, but I'd like to be right.


Can't be theft if it's not yours in the first place. It's their ammo. Private property to do with as they please
_________________________
Everyone takes a beating sometimes.

"Just rubberize that carp"

Much like anonymous sex, internet based gun transactions are mildly risky, but almost always worth it.

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#1632682 - 05/06/20 12:24 PM Re: Handgun ammo availability and venting on gougers [Re: SteveThePirate]
nvcdl Offline
Bullseye

Registered: 04/03/13
Posts: 1873
Loc: ORANGE
City or County: Orange
Originally Posted By: SteveThePirate
I've been seeing quality 9mm at fairly reasonable prices popping up on the normal online retailers regularly (SGAmmo, TargetSportsUSA to name a couple).

I've had a couple interactions with members on this forum selling ammo, and I have to vent a little on them. Guys, if you're selling ammo that is available, in stock, at retailers, demanding a 33% or more premium over current retail price is predatory on people who just aren't tracking availability. I'm all about capitalism, but that's not capitalism, it's theft. I'd like to think our shooting community in VA is better than that.

Am I wrong? Probably, but I'd like to be right.


Some people have ALWAYS been posting ammo and other items at prices above retail or at retail. They are focused on what they want (their money back) rather than the potential buyers motivation. Why would someone want to hassle with meeting some random person when they can order online at same price or cheaper?

I typically price parts/ammo I want to sell a bit below the best online price. To get it to move really need to price it about 20% lower or better.

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#1632701 - 05/06/20 01:15 PM Re: Handgun ammo availability and venting on gougers [Re: v8unleashed]
SteveThePirate Offline
Sharp Shooter

Registered: 12/27/13
Posts: 2383
Loc: Fairfax County
City or County: Centreville
Originally Posted By: v8unleashed
I'm pro capitalism, but....

Are you pro second amendment, but... as well?


You're right. I'm pro 2A, but I also believe in severe punishment for people who use guns in illegal or immoral ways. Oh well, call me a hypocrite if you will. My point is that gouging ISN'T capitalism. I appreciate the attempt to undermine my point by making a false equivalency. You're more than welcome to disagree.

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#1632708 - 05/06/20 01:17 PM Re: Handgun ammo availability and venting on gougers [Re: nvcdl]
SteveThePirate Offline
Sharp Shooter

Registered: 12/27/13
Posts: 2383
Loc: Fairfax County
City or County: Centreville
NVCDL:
I'd totally understand people wanting their money back. However, since I haven't seen 9mm being sold online for anywhere near prices that some members are asking, I greatly doubt that they are just trying to get their money back. They're hoping to find people who are unaware that ammo is available through normal channels.

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#1632709 - 05/06/20 01:18 PM Re: Handgun ammo availability and venting on gougers [Re: Verylargeboots]
SteveThePirate Offline
Sharp Shooter

Registered: 12/27/13
Posts: 2383
Loc: Fairfax County
City or County: Centreville
Originally Posted By: Verylargeboots
Originally Posted By: SteveThePirate
I've been seeing quality 9mm at fairly reasonable prices popping up on the normal online retailers regularly (SGAmmo, TargetSportsUSA to name a couple).

I've had a couple interactions with members on this forum selling ammo, and I have to vent a little on them. Guys, if you're selling ammo that is available, in stock, at retailers, demanding a 33% or more premium over current retail price is predatory on people who just aren't tracking availability. I'm all about capitalism, but that's not capitalism, it's theft. I'd like to think our shooting community in VA is better than that.

Am I wrong? Probably, but I'd like to be right.


Can't be theft if it's not yours in the first place. It's their ammo. Private property to do with as they please


You are absolutely right, they can do as they please. And so can I in calling out their BS.

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#1632711 - 05/06/20 01:30 PM Re: Handgun ammo availability and venting on gougers [Re: SteveThePirate]
v8unleashed Offline
Sharp Shooter

Registered: 04/04/09
Posts: 2479
Loc: nova
City or County: nova
Originally Posted By: SteveThePirate

You're right. I'm pro 2A, but I also believe in severe punishment for people who use guns in illegal or immoral ways. Oh well, call me a hypocrite if you will. My point is that gouging ISN'T capitalism. I appreciate the attempt to undermine my point by making a false equivalency. You're more than welcome to disagree.


Not a false equivalency at all. People who claim to be "pro second amendment but" usually follow up in favor of some "reasonable restriction" on what is quintessentially second amendment protected activity (like supporting mag capacity limits). Similarly, you are claiming to be pro capitalism but then criticizing what is quintessentially capitalistic activity (trying to maximize one's price at what the market will bear). In other words, I'm comparing apples to apples.

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#1632719 - 05/06/20 01:48 PM Re: Handgun ammo availability and venting on gougers [Re: SteveThePirate]
SteveThePirate Offline
Sharp Shooter

Registered: 12/27/13
Posts: 2383
Loc: Fairfax County
City or County: Centreville
V8, I disagree in that I don't believe that gouging is a capitalist practice in that it attempts to artificially alter the market. Again, you're free to disagree.

I'm 100% on board with removing regulation from what should be a free market. I'm also for tax exempt nukes for toddlers on the 2A side. Appreciate your input even if we disagree.

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#1633751 - 05/08/20 05:26 PM Re: Handgun ammo availability and venting on gougers [Re: SteveThePirate]
nvcdl Offline
Bullseye

Registered: 04/03/13
Posts: 1873
Loc: ORANGE
City or County: Orange
Originally Posted By: SteveThePirate
NVCDL:
I'd totally understand people wanting their money back. However, since I haven't seen 9mm being sold online for anywhere near prices that some members are asking, I greatly doubt that they are just trying to get their money back. They're hoping to find people who are unaware that ammo is available through normal channels.


Most of the for sale posts on the board are priced over retail - people are silly.


Edited by nvcdl (05/08/20 05:26 PM)

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#1659653 - 07/17/20 09:59 PM Re: Handgun ammo availability and venting on gougers [Re: SteveThePirate]
Goldie2 Offline
Bolt action

Registered: 11/01/13
Posts: 137
Loc: Charlottesville
City or County: Charlottesville
.....


Edited by Goldie2 (09/07/20 11:08 AM)
_________________________
The Chinese Virus was no accident,it was a planned attack. Their karma will not be pleasant.

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#1660462 - 07/21/20 07:09 PM Re: Handgun ammo availability and venting on gougers [Re: SteveThePirate]
MP3Mogul Offline
VAGT Staff

Registered: 01/14/09
Posts: 6218
Loc: Salem, Virginia
City or County: Salem
I, personally, dont look at it as gouging. Some people don't want to order online at all... they want to get it right then and have it in their hands.

My local stores have 0 9mm ammo available... luckily I've been a reloader for 40 years and I don't need to purchase any. With that said.... if person A has a product and advertises the price they want for it, and person B says yes, I would like to purchase it, that is not gouging. I view this as supply and demand. If a person doesn't want to purchase it, they simply move on and don't purchase it.
_________________________
USMC Retired
Semper-Fi

"We're surrounded. That simplifies the problem."
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#1661515 - 07/26/20 02:01 PM Re: Handgun ammo availability and venting on gougers [Re: SteveThePirate]
chwebmaker Offline
Marksman

Registered: 02/15/10
Posts: 284
Loc: Haymarket, Virginia
City or County: Haymarket
I looked at Gunbroker today, prices for a case of 9MM FMJ range ammo is going for $450 - $500. Its supply and demand. Gun purchases are double what they were this time last year and the demand for ammo has skyrocketed. Also, there is a copper shortage going on for ammo components as many of the copper mines have been shut down due to covid since april. I'm betting that ammo prices will continue to go up.

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#1661612 - 07/26/20 09:36 PM Re: Handgun ammo availability and venting on gougers [Re: SteveThePirate]
panic788 Offline
Marksman

Registered: 08/29/13
Posts: 337
Loc: NOVA
City or County: Alexandria
I definitely have seen the prices continue to go up, and folks are not only buying it, they are reselling it for more. Can't see why ammo manufacturers wouldn't continue to allow the gravy train to continue. Make half as much ammo, and still make the same amount of money as before. The prices continue to rise. The profits continue to grow. And once a round of 556 makes it to 2 bucks a bullet, everyone will talk about how they bought cheap and stacked it deep at a $1 a bullet.

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#1661626 - 07/27/20 12:38 AM Re: Handgun ammo availability and venting on gougers [Re: SteveThePirate]
Lastlaugh Offline
Appalachian American

Registered: 04/07/12
Posts: 110
Loc: Poquoson, VA
City or County: Poquoson
The only reason a person would be buying ammo during these crazy times is because they didn't learn during the last 20-plus years of panics.

You can't come on here and complaining about people trying to make money off of their forward thinking just because you didn't think far enough ahead to cover yourself during the next panic. This should be a learning opportunity for anyone not already reloading, but it never is.

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#1666867 - 08/18/20 08:26 AM Re: Handgun ammo availability and venting on gougers [Re: SteveThePirate]
WreckTangle Offline
Double barrel

Registered: 05/21/18
Posts: 56
Loc: Virginia
City or County: Essex
It's crazy. I was curious what prices are currently going for 9mm, so I watched a few auctions on Gunbroker aka Crapbroker. 1000 rounds 9mm Blazer was going for ~$550 average (about a 65% premium).

Reloading: Once fired 9mm brass is going for 0.15-.17 a round, almost what you used to be able to get for a complete 9mm Winchester round. What's the point spending money on brass when you can't even get primers or bullets to reload.

The craziness needs to stop.

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#1666887 - 08/18/20 10:04 AM Re: Handgun ammo availability and venting on gougers [Re: SteveThePirate]
LmgM Offline
Pea shooter

Registered: 10/01/17
Posts: 14
Loc: Virginia
City or County: NOVA
Maybe Iím the oddball one here, but Iíll add to the discussion with my views on the subject. I have plenty of ammo to be comfortable. I definitely have the luxury of NOT having to buy at crazy inflated prices.

Having said that, although I always knew we may experience times like these, my intention was never to sell stockpiles of ammo at booming prices for whatever profits they would bring. I see how it can be a good incentive for all these new (possibly previously anti-gun, liberal) gun owners to get on the 2A train and not vote like dumb-dumbs from now on.

But the people out here selling cases of basic 55 grain 5.56 ammo for ~$1000 or your Walmart assortment of 9mm for ~$600 a case need to understand that you will reap what you sow. Once you ďnormalizeĒ these inflated prices, you will eventually be the ones paying the same money to buy your next batch of ammo.

I will always prioritize the ability of the masses to shoot and train for reasonably low priced ammo over making a few bucks off of desperate buyers in a pandemic. In the end, the chase of a few small stacks of money is not worth me losing the ability to shoot for cheap because we trained the market to overcharge us by our own free will.

Yea, supply affects demand, demand affects price, so on and so forth with the complex economic relationships of a free market. That is capitalism and that is fine. All Iím saying is letís not screw ourselves in the long run by normalizing the abnormal.

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#1667178 - 08/19/20 03:18 PM Re: Handgun ammo availability and venting on gougers [Re: SteveThePirate]
FordBoy Offline
Double barrel

Registered: 09/28/15
Posts: 88
Loc: Clarke
City or County: Clarke
^ Definitely agree with many of those pints. Hard to say what will be "normal" from here on out..

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#1667553 - 08/21/20 04:40 AM Re: Handgun ammo availability and venting on gougers [Re: FordBoy]
magchange Offline
Addicted

Registered: 04/03/16
Posts: 585
Loc: VA - Virginia
City or County: woodbridge
I saw a video the other day about the ammo "crisis".In previous few years the industry has been geared up to produce 8 billion rounds/year.Demand is currently at 10x that .In no way even with every manufacturer operating 24/7 could they produce "80"billion rounds a year.The source said 1.5-2years just to get close to normal again.Make it count,work on quality drills with less ammo.To original price gouging comment...Things are only worth what someones willing to pay.Good luck

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#1672156 - 09/07/20 11:05 AM Re: Handgun ammo availability and venting on gougers [Re: SteveThePirate]
Goldie2 Offline
Bolt action

Registered: 11/01/13
Posts: 137
Loc: Charlottesville
City or County: Charlottesville
Agreed. A small mark up is cool but the gougers, like the guy on here asking $1.30 per round for green tip 5.56 are scum.
_________________________
The Chinese Virus was no accident,it was a planned attack. Their karma will not be pleasant.

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#1673969 - 09/13/20 05:16 PM Re: Handgun ammo availability and venting on gougers [Re: SteveThePirate]
SWRichmond Offline
Marksman

Registered: 04/11/10
Posts: 283
Loc: Central VA
City or County: Richmond
The ammo crunch is officially ending. How do I know? Suddenly there is TONS of ammo available on the "AMMO FOR SALE" forum. All the guys how vacuumed up all the ammo see that production has caught up, availability through normal channels is being restored, and they are going to try to cash out as quick as they can. Ammoseek now delivers results for 5.56, prices are still high but lower than they were just last week and availability holds out for more than a week, instead of merely hours as previously.

EXACT same thing happened with the .22LR crunch. You guys remember? 22's were impossible to find in stores or online. And then suddenly people started selling 22's here right and left, in fantastic quantities, demanding top prices at first but the prices fell slowly at first and then suddenly as 22's hit the stores and stayed.

I love this site. I will never buy from anyone who is contributing to the shortages by buying privately for resale. If you want to buy ammo to resell for a profit, open a business.

You know who you are. And so do I.

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#1674019 - 09/13/20 08:02 PM Re: Handgun ammo availability and venting on gougers [Re: SWRichmond]
FordBoy Offline
Double barrel

Registered: 09/28/15
Posts: 88
Loc: Clarke
City or County: Clarke
Originally Posted By: SWRichmond
The ammo crunch is officially ending. How do I know? Suddenly there is TONS of ammo available on the "AMMO FOR SALE" forum. All the guys how vacuumed up all the ammo see that production has caught up, availability through normal channels is being restored, and they are going to try to cash out as quick as they can. Ammoseek now delivers results for 5.56, prices are still high but lower than they were just last week and availability holds out for more than a week, instead of merely hours as previously.

EXACT same thing happened with the .22LR crunch. You guys remember? 22's were impossible to find in stores or online. And then suddenly people started selling 22's here right and left, in fantastic quantities, demanding top prices at first but the prices fell slowly at first and then suddenly as 22's hit the stores and stayed.

I love this site. I will never buy from anyone who is contributing to the shortages by buying privately for resale. If you want to buy ammo to resell for a profit, open a business.

You know who you are. And so do I.



Or everyone just ran outta money smile

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#1674275 - 09/14/20 05:24 PM Re: Handgun ammo availability and venting on gougers [Re: SteveThePirate]
renee Offline
Single barrel

Registered: 12/26/15
Posts: 27
Loc: Virginia
City or County: Fairfax
very funny FordBoy!

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#1676667 - 09/22/20 09:29 PM Re: Handgun ammo availability and venting on gougers [Re: SteveThePirate]
Robert2888 Offline
Single barrel

Registered: 10/03/18
Posts: 27
Loc: WestMoreland
City or County: Colonial Beach
There are some listings posted lately that reinforce why I dislike most people. The current mania on Kalashnikov related anything, is a perfect example of a true disconnect from supply and demand. Itís a snowball effect of greed building upon the fear of missing out on being a part of said greed.

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#1676756 - 09/23/20 09:24 AM Re: Handgun ammo availability and venting on gougers [Re: Lastlaugh]
GermanSherman Offline
Pea shooter

Registered: 04/13/16
Posts: 14
Loc: Virginia
City or County: alexandria
Originally Posted By: Lastlaugh
The only reason a person would be buying ammo during these crazy times is because they didn't learn during the last 20-plus years of panics.

You can't come on here and complaining about people trying to make money off of their forward thinking just because you didn't think far enough ahead to cover yourself during the next panic. This should be a learning opportunity for anyone not already reloading, but it never is.

Not everyone has gray pubes or has been old or owning guns long enough to remember the last 20 years of shortages.

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