I know this thread is pretty old, but I'd like to offer some observations about FTF intrastate VA transfer ID requirements.

I'm noticing a lot of Sellers REQUIRING a VA Driver's License. While it's the Sellers option to require whatever he may want, my point is that 1), it's not necessary or a legal requirement; and 2) it limits the LEGAL market to the potential seller.

I am a resident of VA, but I'm also a resident of an other state (not at my choosing in fact). My Driver's License is NOT a VA DL for several reasons: one, I'd have to surrender my current license and two, my vehicle registrations are cheaper and currently registered in the other state.

I DO hold a VA CHP, which gets me to my point. If someone has a Resident VA CHP (as opposed to a non-resident CHP), this document - along with a government issued photo ID (such as a Passport or state Driver's License, etc.) should be all that is necessary to document that the Buyer is entitled to a FTF firearm transfer (other than Class III) with a VA resident Buyer. There is no legal reason why I should not be able to show up in an out of state registered vehicle, with out of state driver's license, and make a FTF firearm transaction with another resident of VA (though I might feel better by seeing his CHP).

BTW, I also continue to vote in the other state, so I don't hold a VA Voter Registration document currently either. Why? Because I still have friends in government in the other state and continue to support them (they have excellent 2A voting records at both state and federal officeholder levels).

Now, there is nothing on my CHP that distinguishes that it is either a resident or non-resident form, BUT is has my full name and my Virginia address, along with physical description. This permit PROVES that the holder has been vetted by the VA State Police and that the holder is technically a resident for VA firearm law purposes and legally entitled to purchase and own (non Class III) firearms).

HOWEVER, if I were to go to a VA FFL to buy a firearm, the FFL is bound not just by VA law, but Federal law as well. My driver's license IS required for transactions with an FFL and the FFL is bound to honor the state firearms laws for that jurisdiction.

I am looking into getting a VA Identification Card issued by VADMV because, as I read the FFL requirements, the FFL actually is required to see a "state issued form of ID" or something like that, not necessarily a Driver's License. I suspect though that I would have trouble explaining this nuance to most FFLs, if I could go back and find the actual regulation.

On an unrelated note: Congress tried a long time to pass a "national ID" law and failed every time (remember when privacy existed?). So the feds have reverted to tying federal transportation dollars to state driver's license details, format, and databases. All but a few states have gone along to get the bucks which is why so many require you to surrender your license when you move (also for traffic violator scofflaws) and why they have become standardized. You aren't even allowed to smile for your picture so that the facial recognition software works better when they want to find you. Even insurance companies are co-conspirators. Every few months I get notices from my VA insurance underwriter telling me I am required to get a VA DL, now that I live in VA. So, if I did that, my other state insurance company would undoubtedly find out I no longer had my DL there and start harassing me.

Sorry for the long post, but identification, privacy, state vs. federal law, and the 2A in general get my goat.

I don't think you can have two residences can you? Just like, we own two houses. Each is in a different county, yet we can only get a chp's from the county that we reside in. If someone didn't have a VA drivers license, I wouldn't sell to them, and I think a lot of people feel this way. I'm not 100% sure what the laws on this are, but it's not worth taking any chances for most people, and I think if your drivers license is from the other state that's supposed to be your primary residence.

It isn't an issue of "primary residence" it's an issue of whether you have a residence (and pay taxes, presumably) in VA. If you read the regs it makes it clear and provides quite a bit of detail. For example some people have hunting properties and/or simply a summer and winter residence and the regs are designed to accommodate that. I did quite a bit of research on it. After all, we talk about rights, liberties, and freedoms, I'd say that is involved here.

Besides why else would I be able to have a resident VA CHP? I do and I am BUT I don't have a VA driver's license. If it's good enough for VA, why shouldn't it be good enough for FTF transactions here?

And I KNOW a lot of people WON'T sell to others without a VA DL but my points are that it's not illegal and the DL is meaningless when compared to the CHP, which establishes the VA residency and police and judge vetting.

There are two legal prerequisites for a private sale in VA...one is confirm the identity with A government form of photo ID (a passport for example or a state DL)...the other is to confirm the person is a VA resident (EITHER a VA DL OR a VA CHP). The VA CHP has all the info necessary to confirm residency in VA. The CHP also indicates the person was vetted for criminal activity by the VSP and has had firearms training.

Now, I am surprised that the VA CHP isn't a photo ID, but hey, that's VA's business.

But one thing I HAVE NOT seen much talk about is making sure the firearm hasn't been used in a crime or stolen. To some extent a Bill of Sale properly executed with the proper ID and residence verification offers SOME protection to the buyer BUT IMO there should be a way to EASILY access and use the governmental databases to verify the serial number hasn't been reported in a crime or theft.

Now let's think about the 2A. If we truly believe that the Constitution grants us all the right to own firearms (let's say non-criminals) why should we be putting up extra roadblocks as citizens to help the government take away that right? Bloomberg is coming down to VA gun shows with NY residents breaking the law to try and make FFLs paranoid and to get VA government to shut the shows down.

There is every reason to follow VA law and verify residence and identification. And, since VA is a "must issue" state, it is extremely easy to have a CHP issued (at least at the moment), so I can't see why anyone on this site should not have one. But as far as requiring a VA driver's license for the transaction, it's not a legal requirement and it simply limits the population of legally entitled purchasers from the sale (and limits the buyer's 2A rights, not by government, ironically, but by an arbitrary self-imposed bureaucracy).

Why are there only 35,000 Class 3 firearms available to law-abiding citizens making them scarce and expensive? AR-15: $650. M-16 with NFA documentation $15,000. M-60 or Tommy Gun $30,000. Criminal with AR-15 modified with autoseer $2,000. Answer: because government wants to know (the law-abiding citizen) who has them and they grandfathered those who had them at the time of the law. When it wants to outlaw them altogether, it knows where to find the law-abiding citizens who own them.

I'm not a Virginia resident, but I live on the border with Virginia and work in Virginia. I've seen a lot of incorrect and mis-information in these forums regarding VA & federal firearms laws.

Its perfectly legal for non-VA residents to purchase rifles and shotguns in VA, just not handguns. I've purchased long guns at VA gun shows without any problems, but I've run across several members in these forums who have a rifle or shotgun I'm interested in, but who are not familiar with gun laws. BTW, I'm perfectly fine with people who know the law, but who choose to apply additional conditions (CHP, CCW) for their own personal reasons, I'm just frustrated by individuals who don't know the law.

Here's the information straight from the Virginia State Police Website (http://www.vsp.state.va.us/Firearms_VFTP.shtm). I've only shown the information that applies to non-VA residents. Check the link for the complete section.


Identification and Residency Requirements

A primary and secondary form of identification must be presented to the firearms dealer at the time of purchase of any firearm except an antique weapon, or replica of an antique weapon.

Primary Identification. The primary form of ID for a non-Virginia resident, for the purchase of a rifle or shotgun, must consist of a valid photo-ID issued by a governmental agency of the prospective purchaser’s home state that denote the purchaser’s name, race, sex, date of birth and address. Federal law prohibits the sale or transfer of a handgun to a nonresident of the state in which the handgun is being purchased.

Secondary Identification. The secondary form of identification, for Virginia residents and residents of other states, must show an address identical to that shown on the primary form of identification. Some acceptable forms of secondary ID are:

* a current lease,
* evidence of currently paid personal property tax or real estate tax,
* a current utility or telephone bill,
* a current voter registration card,
* a current bank check,
* a current passport,
* a current automobile registration and
* current hunting or fishing license.

Transfer of an Assault Firearm

Proof of citizenship, or of lawful admission for a permanent residence, must be established prior to the purchase of an "assault firearm." An assault firearm is defined as any semi-automatic center-fire rifle or pistol that expels single or multiple projectiles by action of an explosion of a combustible material and is equipped at the time of offence with a magazine which will hold more than 20 rounds of ammunition or designed by the manufacturer to accommodate a silencer or equipped with a folding stock.

One of the following forms of proof of citizenship or lawful residence, pursuant to §18.2-308.2 must be presented to purchase an assault firearm:

* a certified birth certificate or certificate of birth abroad issued by the US State Department,
* an un-expired US Passport,
* a U. S. citizen identification card,
* a current voter registration card,
* a current selective service registration card,
* an immigrant or registration card issued by the Immigration and Naturalization Service, and
* a certificate of citizenship or a certificate of naturalization issued by the Immigration and Naturalization Service.

The information from previous poster is correct, but not on point with this subject. The quoted text applies to licensed firearms dealers, not intrastate (VA-VA) private transactions. Also the poster is discussing intrastate transactions which also doesn't apply to this subject.

Here is the text from the VA State Police FAQ site that does apply to FTF, intra-VA private transactions (note the question is specific to HANDGUN transactions, BUT the answer addresses FIREARMS). One must "drill much deeper" to determine the definition of "resident" which goes to the topic of "Required ID":

"What are the laws concerning the private sale of a handgun?

To privately sell a firearm, it is recommended that you safeguard information pertaining to the transaction such as the date the firearm was sold, the complete name and address of the buyer, and the make, model, and serial number of the firearm. The seller and buyer of a handgun must be a resident of the state in which the transfer occurs. Additionally, Virginia’s handgun purchase limitation applies in private transactions. Refer to http://www.vsp.state.va.us/Firearms_MultiplePurchase.shtm for additional information on multiple handgun purchases. Should the firearm ever be located at a crime scene, trace of the firearm will determine the licensed dealer who last sold the firearm and will identify the last buyer of the firearm. To have your name removed from this process, you may consider placing your firearm on consignment with a licensed dealer. This will also ensure that the firearm is transferred only to a lawfully eligible individual."

SOURCE: http://www.vsp.state.va.us/CJIS.shtm#FAQ

The one area I like the most about this "advice" given in the FAQ reply has to do with "use of firearm in a crime". This is an area not mentioned (or not mentioned enough) in this Forum. I would think we would ALL be much more concerned with IF - as buyers - we were being sold a firearm that might have been used previously in a crime. Buying from an FFL SHOULD provide a buyer with a chain of ownership and some assurance the firearm is "clean." Private sales on the other hand put a lot more liability on the buyer with regard to previous owners and previous (illegal) uses to which it might have been put.

In my opinion there should be an easy way for a buyer to contact a state or federal agency and verify by make, type, and serial number, that a particular firearm had not been reported used in a crime and/or reported lost or stolen. If such an easy method is available, I'd like to hear about it.

mascdm

Howdy from Wyoming,

first let me state that I'm a former and current "Reserve" Deputy Sheriff. I've served over 15 years in the Military and have over 52 months serving in Iraq as a DOD civilian and DOD contractor. I purchase many firearms from various forums and it certainly is your prerogative to choose to do business with whomever you choose, as long as the business is conducted legally.

I buy firearms I want and in all my years have only re-sold 3. In December I purchased a Wilson KZ 45 Compact from a Cabelas in your great State of Virginia, (from their FFL to my local FFL) no hiccups, no issues.

The only way to check a firearm is to take the serial number to your local LE and have them run the information through NCIC and even that doesn't guarantee the firearm hasn't been used in any type of nefarious activity.

And on another note I just sent a Taurus to be repaired at the factory. No FFL involved, my insured FEDEX to them and back the same way.

ATPSFS, I agree about your points.

BUT I wish civilians had an easier ability to use the NCIS when purchasing firearms. It makes no sense to make it available only to LE personnel IMHO.

Q: To whom may an unlicensed person transfer firearms under the GCA?

A person may sell a firearm to an unlicensed resident of his State, if he does not know or have reasonable cause to believe the person is prohibited from receiving or possessing firearms under Federal law. A person may loan or rent a firearm to a resident of any State for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes, if he does not know or have reasonable cause to believe the person is prohibited from receiving or possessing firearms under Federal law. A person may sell or transfer a firearm to a licensee in any State. However, a firearm other than a curio or relic may not be transferred interstate to a licensed collector.

[18 U.S.C. 922(a)(3) and (5), 922(d), 27 CFR 478.29 and 478.30]
Q: From whom may an unlicensed person acquire a firearm under the GCA?

A person may only acquire a firearm within the person’s own State, except that he or she may purchase or otherwise acquire a rifle or shotgun, in person, at a licensee’s premises in any State, provided the sale complies with State laws applicable in the State of sale and the State where the purchaser resides. A person may borrow or rent a firearm in any State for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes.

[18 U.S.C. 922(a)(3) and (5), 922(b)(3), 27 CFR 478.29 and 478.30]

I dont like the idea of stamping non VA ressdents with a "cannot buy from us" stamp.

A guy in my car forum (I think he is in TX) asked about a certain type of gun and it is FS here.
SO I sent him a link.

I want him to be able to join and buy the gun here.
If they must ship FFL to FFL so be it

after 14 1/2 years working for a lawenforcement agency you will find out that anything that goes into the computer DATA base never ever comes out. Just saying.
I once did a check on a guy in 2003 and awarrent for a parking ticket from 1972 came up as still on file. He worked every day right in the middle of town so you know he wasn't hiding. Don't believe everything you read or hear. It's just flagged so it doesn't show up on the instant or quick check but its there. Traced guns from the manufactor to the last person that bought it from an FFL dealer after 8 years. Have A Nice day and CYA

I have question about selling a firearm. If you are a military member stationed in Virginia but from another state can you legally sell a firearm in Virginia to a Virginia resident or service member to service member as well? I have read plenty about military being able to buy here but nothing on them selling. Might sound silly just want to make sure.

If you have permanent orders to Virginia, you're considered a resident as far as sales go. If it's temporary duty, then you cannot.

Under federal law, if you own real property in a state, you are resident of that state during the time you are staying at that property. This means If you live (resident - driver license) in Pa, but own a house in Va, you are federally considered a Va. resident during the time you are at the Va. house. This means Federally you can buy whatever you want while in either state. HOWEVER, Va law restricts handguns from being transferred to you, Also "other" such as an AR-15 stripped lower. They would all have to be shipped to an FFL in your home state. You can buy all the long guns you want in Va but they must go through an FFL.

This is my understanding, and not to be considered anything but.

The other person that responded is correct. If you are in the military on permanent orders, you are considered a virginia resident by law.

This is probably a dumb question but am going to ask anyway. I am looking at making a trade no cash involved from a resident in louisianna. He will be driving through the state in a month or two. We would like to both handle the revolvers that we are trading for. Since there is no cash just an even swap, do we still need to meet at an FFL to do the trade?

Yes. He will need to have his revolver shipped back to an FFL in Louisiana.
For you, you meet an a local FFL to do the paperwork on your revolver, and you take it home with you.

Thanks RRomeo that's what I thought, just wanted to make sure.

Let me add to the mess as I am one of those evil foreigners (i.e. live in NC):

Antique and BP weapons do not seem to be seen as firearms by the fed, so they can be shipped through USPS all day. Now, I can see where a 1851 Colt or a Martini-Henry or a Vetterli fall into that, but what about stuff like a Nagant rifle or a 1895 Revolver? Where would they fall? Gut feeling is they are not antique since they were made for a while (WW2), but so is the case of a reproduction 1851 Colt. Or a Mauser C96?

The second thing I do not understand is when a rifle can be shipped (FedEx) directly to a person and when it has to go to a FFL. Am I am not talking just about person to person in the same state. The example I have is that I am getting a M1 Garand from the civilian marksmanship program: it is being shipped to my home. How?

If it is truly an antique that was made in or before 1898, then it is not a firearm. So if you have a Nagant revolver that was made in 1899, then it can not be mailed except by a licensed firearms dealer. The same goes with your Marlin 1893, or Colt Single Action Army, or whatever. Now, if it's a reproduction that does not fire a fixed cartridge, then it is still classified the same as an antique. The 1851 Colt reproduction presumably uses cap and ball, so it's fine.
CMP has some exemption for send firearms directly to citizens. The only other time I can think of when you can receive a firearm that you didn't already own is when it's from a will.

so if someone wants to buy a gun i posted on a forum and they are from texas or colorodo or wyoming, do you have to get a ffl to ship to another ffl is the way im reading this?

In my experience,

For a private citizen to ship a pistol it has to be sent to an FFL via FEDEX or UPS with a copy of your DL . I shipped to a Manufacturer for repairs. Funny thing..they just UPSd it back after the repair.

For a private citizen to ship a rifle, it can be done via Registered Mail to an FFL. With a copy of your DL, I had a FFL send a copy of his FFL to include in the package.

No matter how y0u slice it, the shipping of a firearm out of state requires it to be received by an FFL who accepts from individuals(many choose not). With a copy of your DL.

So in order to save me the time it would take to read and try to interpret the legal mumbo jumbo featured above, I was hoping I could just ask a simple question and get a simple answer.

There is an NC resident who wants to trade me a high end optic for a Daniel Defense rifle. What are the legal implications here?

Rifle has to transfer through an FFL. As a VA resident you cannot transfer except to another VA resident legally.

You can use an FFL in VA, or ship it to an FFL in NC. Best bet is have your FFL ship it to his FFL.

I think for purposes of the Federal Statute you are NOT a Virginia resident for legal purposes, even if you reside/live in Virginia. I also think that for purposes of Virginia state law you are not a legal resident of the Commonwealth of Virginia. You are legally the resident of the state where you are registered to vote and that issued your DL. I may be wrong, but were I you, I would consult a very knowledgeable attorney before I would purchase a handgun from a private individual in Virginia.

U have to use a va ffl to ship to nc ffl